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January 13, 2014 2:40 pm  #21


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Yeahright wrote:

With TRF it was a game of noticing clues , trying to work out a magic trick. The rules of the game were clear. All they did was flip turn the tables on us.

It's a shame you feel that way, but I think you'll have to admit that what they did with TRF war quite extraordinary. We didn't get that after season 1, and it would be hard to pull such an elaborate mystery off again.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't aspire to be as extraordinary as TRF ever again, but I'm saying that maybe we should cut them some slack. It's easy to say, "TRF was awesome, let's do it again," but you try to write such a high-quality show that tries to stay true to the original lore while still being original, with jaw-dropping plot twists, and then ALSO end on an elaborate mystery that all fans can actively participate in. TRF might have been a brilliant one-off, and I'm actually fine with that if the creators keep up the overall quality of the writing.


___________________________________________
"Oh please. Killing me, that's so two years ago."
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January 13, 2014 2:43 pm  #22


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I think it's a sign of their brilliance that they didn't go for a big cliffhanger the third time. They know that it works, yet they dare to try something new. It would probably have suffered from diminishing returns and they realised that. 

People like the show for different reasons and some people don't like the changes in the third series which is understandable. However, for me they showed that they can renew and deepen the storylines and surprise us with doing the unexpected.

Maybe their writing is not to everyone's taste but nontheless they're really good at it. 

 

January 13, 2014 2:54 pm  #23


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

silverblaze wrote:

I think it's a sign of their brilliance that they didn't go for a big cliffhanger the third time. They know that it works, yet they dare to try something new. It would probably have suffered from diminishing returns and they realised that. 

People like the show for different reasons and some people don't like the changes in the third series which is understandable. However, for me they showed that they can renew and deepen the storylines and surprise us with doing the unexpected.

Maybe their writing is not to everyone's taste but nontheless they're really good at it. 

 
This.  I feel the same. 

 

January 13, 2014 4:16 pm  #24


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

anjaH_alias wrote:

For me it´s not a cliffhanger. And honestly I don´t need cliffhangers to stay a fan. I am happy with this. And whether this was really Moriarty - I doubt that - we will see. Maybe another villain.
Or just Mycroft. His first words to Sherlock, when Moriarty is back on scene are: "Have you learnt your lesson?" As if the starting plane was a kind of punishment (and that it was obviously to Sherlock) and never meant to reach a destination. As if he knew that the exile will be very short. He could have arranged that all to get his brother out of the official penal system, imo that´s also a possibility. And material about Moriarty to make a little film clip he should have enough .

yep this is my interpretation. its mycroft. which does not mean moriaty is not back . it just means mycroft found a way out of it for Sherlock.

The thing is, there isn't much point in a huge cliffhanger. We've just been through that and they have just shown us that they wont' even neceassrily resolve the cliffhanger unambiguously. Two years waiting and we are just teased even more really in TEH (which is great, btw). BUT I don't see the fandom as getting hugely worked up with possibilities with any cliffhanger. We know by now that Sherlock is effectively indestructable and Mycroft has limitless powers of arranging stuff. The real cliffhanger is the baby and Mary-is that really going to happen (hope so!) and if so, wow.

Last edited by beekeeper (January 13, 2014 4:21 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

January 13, 2014 4:28 pm  #25


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I dont see a cliffhanger here as such. To me its a clever device that leaves room for all possibilities in S4 open to Moftiss
Could be Moriarty (which I doubt), or a brother.
Could be a ruse by Sherlock or even Mary.
Could be a get out of jail free card by Mycroft, or even a payback from Lady Smallwood. After all Sherlock was working for her; and as a result of the blackmail her husband committed suicide.
Or it could be someone we have no idea about. Someone who benefited from the threat of blackmail being lifted once Magnussen died.
And there is a women out there somewhere who has been Sherlocked.

Actually with all these twists and turns we will probably find out Molly is Moriarty. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png
 

 

January 13, 2014 4:37 pm  #26


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

God forbid!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 13, 2014 4:44 pm  #27


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

beekeeper wrote:

The thing is, there isn't much point in a huge cliffhanger. We've just been through that and they have just shown us that they wont' even neceassrily resolve the cliffhanger unambiguously. Two years waiting and we are just teased even more really in TEH (which is great, btw). BUT I don't see the fandom as getting hugely worked up with possibilities with any cliffhanger. We know by now that Sherlock is effectively indestructable and Mycroft has limitless powers of arranging stuff. The real cliffhanger is the baby and Mary-is that really going to happen (hope so!) and if so, wow.

I'm glad they didn't do a great cliffhanger this time. It's a good device but it gets really tiresome when overused. For me it shows that the Moftiss know what they're doing. 

I'm getting rather convinced of the 'Mycroft did it' theory but then I'm trained as a scientist and we like simple solutions. Screenwriters maybe less so. 
 

 

January 13, 2014 5:01 pm  #28


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I agree with those who say that this is not a real Cliffhanger. To me it feels more like a Teaser, to be honest. And I'm not sure if it's a very good one, but then again... the guessing has already started, so there you go.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 13, 2014 5:02 pm  #29


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I am sorry for lying about Moriarty not being (somehow) back.

We had been told to.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smug.png

 

January 13, 2014 5:05 pm  #30


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

silverblaze wrote:

beekeeper wrote:

The thing is, there isn't much point in a huge cliffhanger. We've just been through that and they have just shown us that they wont' even neceassrily resolve the cliffhanger unambiguously. Two years waiting and we are just teased even more really in TEH (which is great, btw). BUT I don't see the fandom as getting hugely worked up with possibilities with any cliffhanger. We know by now that Sherlock is effectively indestructable and Mycroft has limitless powers of arranging stuff. The real cliffhanger is the baby and Mary-is that really going to happen (hope so!) and if so, wow.

I'm glad they didn't do a great cliffhanger this time. It's a good device but it gets really tiresome when overused. For me it shows that the Moftiss know what they're doing. 

I'm getting rather convinced of the 'Mycroft did it' theory but then I'm trained as a scientist and we like simple solutions. Screenwriters maybe less so. 
 

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
another trained scientist here! <geekwave>

But you see, I think the "Mycroft did it" IS simpler.  

Last edited by beekeeper (January 13, 2014 5:30 pm)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

January 13, 2014 7:06 pm  #31


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I just love how now we are going to spend the next month asking ourselves whether Moriarty is dead or not.

Genius, just genius.

 

 

January 13, 2014 7:15 pm  #32


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

beekeeper wrote:

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
another trained scientist here! <geekwave>

But you see, I think the "Mycroft did it" IS simpler.  

That's what I meant. It's the simplest theory with the highest explanatory power. I see how my use of English may have been unclear. 

-geekwaves back- http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

January 13, 2014 7:22 pm  #33


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Ozma wrote:

I am sorry for lying about Moriarty not being (somehow) back.

We had been told to.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smug.png

Thank you for lying to us. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


But I sooo busted you on the presence of Andrew Scott. And then you wiggled yourself out again. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

 

January 13, 2014 7:29 pm  #34


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

silverblaze wrote:

Ozma wrote:

I am sorry for lying about Moriarty not being (somehow) back.

We had been told to.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smug.png

Thank you for lying to us. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


But I sooo busted you on the presence of Andrew Scott. And then you wiggled yourself out again. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

haha, I know! Let's face it, in Sherlock's presence I wouldn't last 5 minutes if he wanted to find out something from me.

 

January 13, 2014 7:36 pm  #35


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Well I think once we knew who'd seen the preview, if we'd wanted info, we were free to PM and ask.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 13, 2014 7:39 pm  #36


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Ozma wrote:

I am sorry for lying about Moriarty not being (somehow) back.

We had been told to.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smug.png

 
Nothing to be sorry about! I am glad, I didn't find it out before. I don't think I was ever so surprised by a plot turnaround then yesterday (maybe only with Sixth Sense).

So, thank you very much for keeping the secret.  It must have been so hard, not being able to talk to someone.


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

January 13, 2014 7:41 pm  #37


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

It was horrible and I was very upset after watching it - we drank to forget after the screening

 

January 13, 2014 7:48 pm  #38


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Ozma wrote:

It was horrible and I was very upset after watching it - we drank to forget after the screening

 
I can imagine that. Sadness came with one day delay for me. I had to try really hard not to think to much about Sherlock today to prevent crying. I suppose my collagues at work wouldn't have understand.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

January 13, 2014 7:49 pm  #39


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

stoertebeker wrote:

Ozma wrote:

It was horrible and I was very upset after watching it - we drank to forget after the screening

 
I can imagine that. Sadness came with one day delay for me. I had to try really hard not to think to much about Sherlock today to prevent crying. I suppose my collagues at work wouldn't have understand.

I sent you a message

 

January 13, 2014 7:55 pm  #40


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

silverblaze wrote:

beekeeper wrote:

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
another trained scientist here! <geekwave>

But you see, I think the "Mycroft did it" IS simpler.  

That's what I meant. It's the simplest theory with the highest explanatory power. I see how my use of English may have been unclear. 

-geekwaves back- http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

ha, no you didn't, I managed to misread convinced as unconvinced . And I am a native English speaker. So oops there. Sorry. Long day, such a long day that I still haven't totally finished watching the episode (I had to dip in and out last night owing to work, and I haven't caught up. Tonight though! Saw the wow ending)
 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

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