anjaH_alias wrote:

silverblaze wrote:

But the whole point was that it would have been MUCH better, logically, to kill both Sherlock and Magnussen. Instead she saved his life and his reputation. 

I like her. And I like what she brings to the relationship. It'll keep the bromance interesting. 

Definetely. I like her much more than in the previous episodes. And we shouldn´t forget - although we might not understand their friendship for us/our lives - there are three sociopaths (more or less) going along :-). As we know now also John is not without certain traits. And the series is far away from any political correctness - that´s what I appreciate.

I pretty much agree with all that was said above. 
I need to watch the episode a few times before making my mind completely but my first impression is that I still like her. Sherlock forgave her because (as he said at 221B) he understands her reasons and he is aware that despite her mistakes she really loves John and she loves Sherlock too.

What I understood was that she used to work for the CIA and she must have done a lot of dirty work for them (think Jason Bourne). And although that could be considered heroic for many (i.e.: she might have prevented terrorist attacks), there are others who must be really pissed off and would want to kill her and the people she loves. Therefore, Magnussen theatening to blow up her fake identity was a real danger and (in her mind) he needed to be eliminated. I can't really blame her. She responded the way she was trained to do = she tried to kill him.

Should she have trusted in Sherlock?... eeeeeeeh... yes? I'm not sure. The only person who should run to Sherlock for help is John. Everybody else takes their chances because nobody knows how he will react. He could have gone stright to John to tell him everything. Mary knows that Sherlock likes her (even loves her in his own way) but she also knows that he loves John above everything and that his loyalty will always lay with him. She made a mistake, yes. But she was desperate and terrified and I can understand her (even if I don't agree with he decisions 100%).

I have no problem with Mary staying in the show forever (I actually like Amanda a lot so I'm biased). What really worries me is the baby. I really don't see how a baby could work in the story. BUT, especially after this series, I trust 100% in Mofftiss. I surrender to their geniuses!

The child may make all the difference.

Ozma wrote:

There isn't going to be a child.

 
With the smiley face at the end your comment looks positively evil.

...although, very likely.

Weirdness wrote:

Ozma wrote:

There isn't going to be a child.

 
With the smiley face at the end your comment looks positively evil.

...although, very likely.

It's a fictional baby; and all good writers have to be prepared to make difficult decisions (I lived through The X Files and Scully having to give up her only child that she'd been trying to have for years to never see him again, so I know what I'm talking about ) because otherwise we just tell the story of Mary Sue and not of the interesting characters we love.

 

I think a baby at Baker St would be awesome! Can just picture John chasing after Sherlock with baby Sherlette strapped in the Baby Bjorn! But Mary, Mary has to go...

Last edited by NotYourHousekeeperDear (January 13, 2014 9:57 pm)

Regardless of all my Parentlock fanfic dreams I can't see a baby at Baker St. working.  I don't know how this is all going to work out but deep in my heart I believe they have to get back to the dynamic of Sherloc and John against the world.

I think you're watching Modern Family, not Sherlock...

Ozma wrote:

Can we have a look at a couple of things:

-Mary shoots Sherlock. Ok, not fatally (though why couldn't she shoot him in the leg or something?) but please let's notice that Sherlock DOES FLATLINE and only comes to because he fights to not cause suffering to John.  So a pretty serious injury which required fecking surgery.

-Sherlock said she saved his life. Really?? When she goes to the hospital and John tells her he's pulled through surgery, she makes a face like 'Oh shit' because now she's obviously scared Sherlock will tell John. She was expecting him to die.
Then there is a nice little scene in which she threatens Sherlock to make sure he doesn't tell John - in that scene I was more scared of her that I was of Magnussen for the entire episode

- then, when Sherlock gets her into the fake building, she is STILL threatening to kill him ('How badly do you want to find out?' 'Understand there is NOTHING I wouldn't do to stop John from leaving me - or something along these lines)

But yet, YET, Sherlock still fights her case, John still forgives her even though he was right there when she confessed and threatened Sherlock again, and Sherlock even still bloody trusts her with John when he is about to leave.

How is this even ok?

I think it's very much *not okay.* 

She meant to kill him. Sherlock helped her, for John. And he did it in a way that prevented John from doing what he very often does-- live in denial. 

John, sooner or later, has to accept responsibilty for his choices of partners-- and he chose *not* to look at the flash drive that would tell him the truth about Mary. So, still making a choice to live in denial. 

Mary, telling Sherlock not to tell John-- that was actually the thing that was the final straw for me. Just because you love someone, and don't want to lose them-- that's not an excuse for attempted murder!

It's controlling to a disturbing degree-- something a person who obsessed (like a stalker) would do. How can John (or Sherlock) ever trust her again?


 

sj4iy wrote:

I'm not worried about how Mary or a baby will or won't fit into the show, because the writers will take care of that, and I quite trust them to do it without comprimising the show's integrity.  By telling us that "John is addicted to danger", they pretty much quashed any ideas that he would be able to give up his lifestyle so easily.  I just empathize with her position...she had to get away.  She could no longer kill Magnussen without John becoming a suspect, she couldn't have Sherlock telling him, and she knew Magnussen wouldn't say a word...for a price.  Her only option was to shoot Sherlock, but she didn't want to do it.  She made a mistake by not trusting him and coming to him in the first place...THAT was her mistake.  And it's an understandable mistake to make in her position.  She had worked very hard to leave her other life behind, even found someone who would love her, and was pregnant with his child...things she probably thought she'd never have.  And to see it suddenly all be threatened by a scumbag like Magnussen?  To see that happy life that she had worked so hard to build up be swept away in an instant...it was too much for her.  She was too scared to tell Sherlock, because she thought he would tell John, so she tried to take care of it the only way she knew how.  Imagine if you had done some horrible in your life, and you've tried to move on from it, and you finally thought you did.  Then imagine Magnussen comes along.  What would you do?

I think, that if I loved someone that much, and I knew that my past coming back to haunt me would threaten the relationship-- and it was something *that dark*-- and let's not forget that when you leave a whole lot of bodies behind you as she presumably did, your partner's life is now threatened as well-- I'd like to think I would do the honorable thing-- and LEAVE. I wouldn't shoot (and very nearly kill) my partner's best friend. 

Either that, or you own up to it.  

Sherlock has taken a lot blame, a lot of flack for "lying to John"-- and that was to save lives and take down Moriarty's web. I'm not sure he'll ever be entirely forgiven. 

But Mary gets a pass? Why? Which is worse?

As  for Sherlock shooting Magnussen (sp?) it was pretty clear to me that inside, his heart was breaking. It was the shot of young Sherlock, crying an looking to his big brother for help that did it. 
 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (January 13, 2014 10:54 pm)

Ozma wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

sj4iy wrote:

I'm not worried about how Mary or a baby will or won't fit into the show, because the writers will take care of that, and I quite trust them to do it without comprimising the show's integrity.  By telling us that "John is addicted to danger", they pretty much quashed any ideas that he would be able to give up his lifestyle so easily.  I just empathize with her position...she had to get away.  She could no longer kill Magnussen without John becoming a suspect, she couldn't have Sherlock telling him, and she knew Magnussen wouldn't say a word...for a price.  Her only option was to shoot Sherlock, but she didn't want to do it.  She made a mistake by not trusting him and coming to him in the first place...THAT was her mistake.  And it's an understandable mistake to make in her position.  She had worked very hard to leave her other life behind, even found someone who would love her, and was pregnant with his child...things she probably thought she'd never have.  And to see it suddenly all be threatened by a scumbag like Magnussen?  To see that happy life that she had worked so hard to build up be swept away in an instant...it was too much for her.  She was too scared to tell Sherlock, because she thought he would tell John, so she tried to take care of it the only way she knew how.  Imagine if you had done some horrible in your life, and you've tried to move on from it, and you finally thought you did.  Then imagine Magnussen comes along.  What would you do?

I think, that if I loved someone that much, that my past coming back to haunt me would threaten the relationship-- and it was something that dark-- and let's not forget that when you leave a whole lot of bodies behind you as she presumably did, your partner's life is now threatened as well-- I'd like to think I would do the honorable thing-- and LEAVE. I wouldn't shoot (and very nearly kill) my partner's best friend. 

Either that, or you own up to it.  

Sherlock has taken a lot blame, a lot of flack for "lying to John"-- and that was to save lives and take down Moriarty's web. I'm not sure he'll ever be entirely forgiven. 

But Mary gets a pass? Why? Which is worse?
 

Yes. Sherlock lied to John, to save him, suffering an incredible amount in the meantime both at having to leave John and also because of the small fact that he travelled for 2 years getting into god knows what situations to get rid of a web of criminals - with the purpose of making the world safer - and when he comes back he gets abused, beaten and called a liar.

Mary? Mary has lied to John FROM THE BEGINNING, nothing and I repeat nothing about her is true, she clearly says 'the information Magnussen has on me would send me to jail for life' (so not really clean work there hey) and yet....she gets forgiven.

I would think, since all this has happened, that it doesn't end there - meaning that they don't just happily carry on, having the baby and perhaps telling the story of 'when mummy shot uncle Sherlock' around the fireplace at Christmas, but somehow Mary reedems herself by saving a life at the cost of her own (like it has been done for her) - perhaps Sherlock, even better John, or perhaps even both.

Thank you! Finally somebody got my point. :-D 

I suspect that Mary will redeem herself-- but it'll probably be an act of self-sacrifice, that costs her her own life. Not sure how I feel about that, as she's pregnant.