BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

mrshouse · January 16, 2014 4:55 pm

silverblaze wrote:
mrshouse wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
I think they should write MF out.
Not content with his performance then?which especially?
No, he's brilliant. I was just trolling basically because people get so stuck on the bromance thing.

Yeah go for oscar fluffy-jumper-hedgehog! His smile is pure sunshine...

Lilly83 · January 16, 2014 5:03 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Fine, I move this into this thread:

Mary was a killer, stopped it for whatever reason and is pregnant. In S4 she may as well stay at home, take care of the baby and let John and Sherlock be "sexy".
Mrs Hudson is kind of a badass, too, but never joins them during their adventures.
I don't understand why people don't want Mary along anymore when nobody really can know, yet, what Mofftiss will do with her!? IMO right now it is NOT a trio. So what's your problem??

Yes, you are right. I'll probably make up my mind around it, but now I just can't do it, I can't trust her...she shot(kill) Sherlock, and no one can convince me that she had a real reason to do that. I trust Mofftiss enough to make a good job with the contradicitions of her character... I'm just having some trouble to cope with Johnlock feelings... and now I'm just rambling,

Hera · January 16, 2014 5:05 pm

Swanpride wrote:
As avid Arrow watcher, I can honestly say that a trio can be very enjoyable. As Grimm watcher I can say that adding new people to the "inner circle" so to speak can add to a show. As White Collar watcher I can admit that building a show around the relationship of two people does become problematic on the long run.

I honestly don't care if they make a trio, or an ensemble show, all of this can be very enjoyable, and as long as I get the deep friendship between sherlock and John, it is all fine.

You're right. I personally love all minor characters on "Sherlock" and I don't think that a trio can't be a good thing. But for me, the ideal thing with "Sherlock" will always be an ensemble show with the relationship of John and Sherlock in the middle. That's just something I enjoy very much. That doesn't mean that it has to be this way all the time, but in the end, in the very end of the show, I want John and Sherlock to be back an 221b sitting at the fire place and waiting for clients. That'll always be my "goal" when watching the show. That's why everything, that seems to lead away from this makes me kind of anxious. But not in a very serious way. I just like to talk about these things, freak out a little and enjoy the show just as it is.

Lilly83 · January 16, 2014 5:25 pm

Hera wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
As avid Arrow watcher, I can honestly say that a trio can be very enjoyable. As Grimm watcher I can say that adding new people to the "inner circle" so to speak can add to a show. As White Collar watcher I can admit that building a show around the relationship of two people does become problematic on the long run.

I honestly don't care if they make a trio, or an ensemble show, all of this can be very enjoyable, and as long as I get the deep friendship between sherlock and John, it is all fine.
You're right. I personally love all minor characters on "Sherlock" and I don't think that a trio can't be a good thing. But for me, the ideal thing with "Sherlock" will always be an ensemble show with the relationship of John and Sherlock in the middle. That's just something I enjoy very much. That doesn't mean that it has to be this way all the time, but in the end, in the very end of the show, I want John and Sherlock to be back an 221b sitting at the fire place and waiting for clients. That'll always be my "goal" when watching the show. That's why everything, that seems to lead away from this makes me kind of anxious. But not in a very serious way. I just like to talk about these things, freak out a little and enjoy the show just as it is.

Can I make your words mine? Because it sum up my rambling thoughts,in a less bitter way.

LoveBug54 · January 16, 2014 6:00 pm

Ozma wrote:
dartmoordoggers wrote:
I suppose all options are open; although they do not have to resolve the Mary issue for some time. She could spend the next five years at home looking after the baby and become a minor character like Donovan or Anderson.
Can't see another story based on keeping her past secret; they have already done that.
And I think any attempt to turn the programme into Team Sherlock/John/Mary would defeat the whole point of the show. It would no longer be Sherlock.
I agree. It would no longer be Sherlock.
But it’s not going to happen (well I very much hope it’s not). Mary has fallen from grace now, I don’t think she’ll stick around for long.
Because if she does, you can forget she’ll just sit at home with the baby – yes she wanted to leave her past life behind, but when John went to the drug den she was still quick to go with him even after he protested that she was pregnant.

She’s not staying for long.

I wonder if she has any connection with Moriarty.

"But Ricky - I want to join the band!"

My biggest concern when I found out about Mary for this season is exactly that; that she would become part of the team. We've already seen some of that with the way she follows the boys around to "help." Now that they've established she's a badass there's no reason why she can't. I suppose she can put the baby in a snuggli and bring it along since I assume she's a modern mom. </sarcasm>

Tantalus · January 16, 2014 9:52 pm

I confess I didn't bother to read all 22 pages of comments here, so I'll pretend (sort of) that we can offer anything related to Mary here. So...

I really think she will be killed off, and that it will have already happened when Series 4 begins, with flashbacks showing us what happened. I will say that I really liked Mary much more than I could have thought possible, but she still breaks up the partnership between Sherlock and John, which is, I think, the central theme of the stories. Mary absolutely could be an interesting addition to the show, but it wouldn't be Sherlock Holmes anymore, at least not the Sherlock Holmes Conan Doyle created.

Yes, ACD separated Holmes and Watson with Watson's marriage, and fairly early in their relationship, but it wasn't the same, and many of the later stories written up by Watson are re-visits to the time before Mary, when it was just the two of them in Baker Street. The most successful Doyle stories are the ones that begin in Baker Street, and take Holmes and Watson out to face the various evils of the world. The same goes for "Sherlock", in my opinion, and I think Series 4 will open, not with John quite back at Baker Street, but totally depressed and eventually moving on with life to return to his old stomping grounds. Thus, in many ways, I expect Series 4 to much more like Series 1 and 2.

But I could be wrong.

silverblaze · January 16, 2014 10:32 pm

I'd be very surprised if she'd be killed off oof-screen, she's too important to do that. I hope she'll stick around a bit longer. And I really don't want them to go back to the baddy of the week format.

RavenMorganLeigh · January 16, 2014 10:47 pm

You know? I actually wouldn't have a problem with Mary as "one of the team". Except...I don't think I can ever trust her again. That's actually my problem with her. I just can't trust her, and as much as I've tried, I can't forgive her, either.

sj4iy · January 16, 2014 10:58 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Fine, I move this into this thread:

Mary was a killer, stopped it for whatever reason and is pregnant. In S4 she may as well stay at home, take care of the baby and let John and Sherlock be "sexy".
Mrs Hudson is kind of a badass, too, but never joins them during their adventures.
I don't understand why people don't want Mary along anymore when nobody really can know, yet, what Mofftiss will do with her!? IMO right now it is NOT a trio. So what's your problem??

Jealousy?

besleybean · January 17, 2014 6:47 am

I am perfectly happy to give a full and honest answer, as I have nothig to hide.
I would prefer if it was just Sherlock and John.
The Holmes -Watson relationship was what I read the stories for and Sherlock-John is what I watch BBC Sherlock for.
But I am perfectly happy to accept whatever the writers decide to do with Mary and however her character develops.

Mattlocked · January 17, 2014 8:09 am

sj4iy wrote:
Mattlocked wrote:
Fine, I move this into this thread:

Mary was a killer, stopped it for whatever reason and is pregnant. In S4 she may as well stay at home, take care of the baby and let John and Sherlock be "sexy".
Mrs Hudson is kind of a badass, too, but never joins them during their adventures.
I don't understand why people don't want Mary along anymore when nobody really can know, yet, what Mofftiss will do with her!? IMO right now it is NOT a trio. So what's your problem??
Jealousy?

Hehe, I sometimes thought so, too.
Told hubby yesterday: "So many fans want Mary to be dead!"
Hubby:"That's cruel. Even though most of them are girls?"
Me:"Yes...."
We:"Wait..... OH!!"

SusiGo · January 17, 2014 8:15 am

I agree with besleybean. I would prefer Sherlock and John on their own because IMO they are at the heart of the show as well as in Canon. But I am willing and happy to wait what they are going to do with Mary. Because this is Moftiss' own personal version of Sherlock Holmes and fans should respect that. As a writer I am always open for ideas and suggestions but I would be quite annoyed if people would start making requests and telling me to kill off someone just because the character does not fit in THEIR view of my story.

miriel68 · January 17, 2014 8:39 am

SusiGo wrote:
But I am willing and happy to wait what they are going to do with Mary. Because this is Moftiss' own personal version of Sherlock Holmes and fans should respect that.

I had many fears and doubts before the season 3 started but I learnt to trust Moftiss and I was right: they somehow managed to pull it off and present a coherent and compelling "sequel" of Sherlock's adventures. I could fret about many things regarding 4th season as well (Mary, Sherlock "uncle", Moriarty), but after all they are not only excellent writers but also ACD fans and I decided just to relax and see what will happen.

mrshouse · January 17, 2014 8:47 am

Swanpride wrote:
I trust that she would do everything to protect John (and the baby). That's enough for me.

But that would not exactly be sherlock, would it?
That would be amanda and martin living their life (The cutest couple btw...snooch)

beekeeper · January 17, 2014 8:48 am

Swanpride wrote:
Actually, in a lot of the well-known stories (Scandal in Bohemia, The final Poblem, The Red-headed league) Watson is married. One of the cases even starts with a patient coming to him (the engeneer's thumb) rather than at baker street. Doyle might have gotten tired of thinking up reasons for Watson to go off with Sherlock, but the truth is that the starts of those stories tend to be way more interesting than the usual "we were in our living room and a client turned up" or the "I looked through my files and I can finally tell this story".

I agree with this, I think it adds a real layer to the stories.

Even for those who would like them together, poised to fight crime or bicker at the drop of a hat...John was always going over to stay with Holmes. Nearly every time his wife went away to visit anyone, it seems (not quite) he was over staying with Holmes. (which is unusual. Even in victorian times, adult men didn't really do this, afaik, any more than today. If I were a canon Johnlocker-and I am not- that's where I'd be looking).

But I also agree with those who say that they are not sure they can trust Mary. Contract killing isn't in any way morally ambiguous. And she did shoot Sherlock. The alternative was .... not to shoot Sherlock. She did not have to shoot Sherlock. To be willing to nearly kill a friend-and Sherlock was saved by his own intelligence, she probably would have killed anyone else-in order to stop your husband from knowing your dodgy past is really not the action of a character with integrity or who I could really trust.

Last edited by beekeeper (January 17, 2014 8:49 am)

SolarSystem · January 17, 2014 8:59 am

SusiGo wrote:
I agree with besleybean. I would prefer Sherlock and John on their own because IMO they are at the heart of the show as well as in Canon. But I am willing and happy to wait what they are going to do with Mary. Because this is Moftiss' own personal version of Sherlock Holmes and fans should respect that.

I'm so glad I read the thread to the very end, because I can just second what you wrote here, Susi. Sherlock and John definitely are the heart of the show, and if Moftiss decide to have Mary around for longer, then I hope they will find a way to do this without compromising what the relationship between Sherlock and John is about. I am well aware that the relationship changes and probably has to change in order to keep it interesting. And Mary was a pretty good 'device' to help in achieving such a change. Nevertheless I hope that they will keep her more in the background in S4.

Hera · January 17, 2014 9:56 am

SusiGo wrote:
I agree with besleybean. I would prefer Sherlock and John on their own because IMO they are at the heart of the show as well as in Canon. But I am willing and happy to wait what they are going to do with Mary. Because this is Moftiss' own personal version of Sherlock Holmes and fans should respect that. As a writer I am always open for ideas and suggestions but I would be quite annoyed if people would start making requests and telling me to kill off someone just because the character does not fit in THEIR view of my story.

I agree as well.

I also want to clarify that whenever I write something about what "should" happen in series 4 or with Mary or any other character that's entirely wishful fanfiction-like writing in my head. I'm happy to go any way the writers decide to take. I trust them.

Clancy · January 19, 2014 3:52 am

Tantalus wrote:
I really think she will be killed off, and that it will have already happened when Series 4 begins, with flashbacks showing us what happened. {details}

I think they're going to have to have start S4 almost immediately after the end of S3, because of the Moriarty is back issue. No matter what's going on there it's something that would need (in show) to be addressed immediately and I hope it's to major a point to be relegated to flash backs.

eta: if the TEH happened more or less on real world time by the end of HLV we're up to January 2015. If they do manage to do S4 in 12 months could maintain the real world /Sherlock time sync whilst moving straight on to the Moriarty problem.

Last edited by Clancy (January 19, 2014 3:59 am)

miriel68 · January 19, 2014 8:00 am

Clancy wrote:
I think they're going to have to have start S4 almost immediately after the end of S3, because of the Moriarty is back issue. No matter what's going on there it's something that would need (in show) to be addressed immediately and I hope it's to major a point to be relegated to flash backs.

eta: if the TEH happened more or less on real world time by the end of HLV we're up to January 2015. If they do manage to do S4 in 12 months could maintain the real world /Sherlock time sync whilst moving straight on to the Moriarty problem.

I thought about it, as well: they tended to reflect the real gaps of time in the show so far. TRF gave him a nice opportunity to have Sherlock go away for as long as they needed, but HLV ending is different: we can't really begin the 4th season with a passing remark "Oh, so when we explained the mysterious Moriarty appareance of all screens of the country two years ago..." can we? And if it is so... I know I am grasping at the straws but I do hope they will somehow manage to film new episodes this year!

besleybean · January 19, 2014 8:31 am

I think it could be early next year...
Whatever, they are desperately triying not to make it 2 years again.