BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » John? Out of character?

Ozma · January 13, 2014 1:32 am

OK so let me recap this, John nearly died himself from the pain of seeing Sherlock jump to his death, then pined for him for 2 years - now Sherlock tells him that it's unlikely that they'll ever meet again, and he has no reactions at all??

Didn't this seem a bit weird? Was John so attached to him before only because he had no one else??

tonnaree · January 13, 2014 1:40 am

I don't think Sherlock or John either one truly believe that this would be the last they see of each other. Mycroft may have even hinted as much to each of them. I think when Sherlock mentions the "six months" (which John knows nothing about) he was being sarcastic.

But, I could be totally wrong.

Ozma · January 13, 2014 1:50 am

But Sherlock does say to him 'Since it's unlikely that we will ever meet again..'?

I understand the writers knew he was going to be back 5 minutes later, but in the context of the characters it doesn't make any sense that John wouldn't at least cry. Would he really still fight to keep the army facade after all they've been through??

Sherli Bakerst · January 13, 2014 1:54 am

The only thing I can think of is that he was literally speechless when confronted with this fact. He couldn't process it and hence just stood there. In a lesser drama, we might have seen him running after the plane, shouting "Sherlock!" in vain as it took off.

But I agree that then just seeing him walk away to the car with his arm around Mary was, definitely, jarring. After Sherlock was well and truly gone and that had finally sunk in, I would have expected some sort of delayed raction from John.

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 2:13 am

Just finished watching it so these are my initial thoughts.

I think that was entirely in character. He watched Sherlock jump to his death and mourned him for two years. Watching him get onto a plane into exile, alive, would be nothing. He deals with emotions by repressing them and he certainly wasn't about to burden Sherlock with whatever he might have been feeling at that moment.

They're not as close as they were either. John has Mary and his focus has been there. He thought Sherlock was dead and started a new life with her. Sherlock slotted back into his life in some way, but not in the same way. I think this whole season has been about the two of them working out what they are to each other in this new world, and I don't think either of them quite figured it out.

Be interesting to see what they do with the characters and the relationships in season 4.

Sherlock Holmes · January 13, 2014 2:19 am

Wholocked wrote:
Just finished watching it so these are my initial thoughts.

I think that was entirely in character. He watched Sherlock jump to his death and mourned him for two years. Watching him get onto a plane into exile, alive, would be nothing. He deals with emotions by repressing them and he certainly wasn't about to burden Sherlock with whatever he might have been feeling at that moment.

They're not as close as they were either. John has Mary and his focus has been there. He thought Sherlock was dead and started a new life with her. Sherlock slotted back into his life in some way, but not in the same way. I think this whole season has been about the two of them working out what they are to each other in this new world, and I don't think either of them quite figured it out.

Be interesting to see what they do with the characters and the relationships in season 4.

Yes, I'd agree with that theory.

Also, John is so used to Sherlock performing "miracles" that he probably doesn't believe for a minute that it'll be the last he sees of him.

SilverMoonDragonB · January 13, 2014 3:55 am

I don't think John is acting out of character. Mad_Lori wrote this on her tumblr, and it pretty much sums up how I'm feeling about John in relation to Sherlock right now;

"John in HLV to me read like a man desperately trying to protect himself from once again having a life totally centered on Sherlock, because he tried that once and it almost destroyed him. He’s had Mary as a shield for awhile now, but at the beginning of HLV we see that this strategy isn’t working so well anymore. He’s irritable and nightmare-ridden. PLUS he is seeing all this evidence of Sherlock moving on without him - his chair’s gone - and he has to focus on his wife and baby. WHICH, LEST WE FORGET, is the totally rational, sane and reasonable thing to do. No matter how amazing your best friend is, your spouse should come first. You and me and the lamppost all know that Sherlock and John will have a lifetime together whereas Mary (canonically, anyway) will not be long for the world, but John doesn’t know that."

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 7:04 am

Wholocked wrote:
Just finished watching it so these are my initial thoughts.

I think that was entirely in character. He watched Sherlock jump to his death and mourned him for two years. Watching him get onto a plane into exile, alive, would be nothing. He deals with emotions by repressing them and he certainly wasn't about to burden Sherlock with whatever he might have been feeling at that moment.

They're not as close as they were either. John has Mary and his focus has been there. He thought Sherlock was dead and started a new life with her. Sherlock slotted back into his life in some way, but not in the same way. I think this whole season has been about the two of them working out what they are to each other in this new world, and I don't think either of them quite figured it out.

Be interesting to see what they do with the characters and the relationships in season 4.

Completely agree!
John is not the man to openly show his emotions when it comes to expressing fondness and love for someone. As he said in the carriage in TEH, 'I find it difficult, this' when he thought he and Sherlock were about to die and Sherlock asked for his forgiveness and urged him to talk about what the last two years without Sherlock had been like for him, even then it was very hard for John to talk about his feelings.

I am also very intrigued as to how this will play out in the next series...

Ozma · January 13, 2014 8:36 am

Thanks guys, very interesting perspectives. Helps me to make sense of it...

I agree that John's reactions, although they might hurt, at least are not something we expect and have seen before, and that Mofftiss don't just go the easy and cheesy route...
And sadly also I agree their relationship isn't what it was any longer.

I wonder if their plan is to make it better, in the future, or if this is just how it's going to be...

Mattlocked · January 13, 2014 8:59 am

I came to my mind, for a second: What if John runs after the plane right now?
And I would have hated it.
Though I would like to have seen an embrace at least, I think they did the scene quite well. Have to watch it again to be sure...

Mirthxx · January 13, 2014 8:59 am

I do get what you're saying but I still expected more. I get that John thinks Sherlock will be back in six months, so get why he isn't crying away. Even though Sherlock says 'who knows' after the six months are up, I think John has faith in Mycroft to not only keep him safe, but to bring him home so think from John's POV it's just a business trip. He's also used to people leaving for long periods of time from the rotations when he was a soldier.

However, Sherlock asked for time alone - but didn't actually use that time for anything specific. He knows the danger he is in and that he might not make it back. I think the 'who knows' was his way of not giving John false hope, in case he didn't make it back in six months, given the pause and the way he looked over John's face before he said it. I thought Sherlock might iniate something, but then maybe he knew this would give too much away to John, would show that he was in actual danger of not coming back, so maybe that's why he played it so cool.

I was expecting a 'We already said everything a year ago' line, some reminder that they do care, even if they don't 'sound it out' every time. I was expecing a hug - figured they'd at least reached that stage, the handshake just seemed to cold and formal - especially highlighted as it followed a Mary hug.

Mxx

Last edited by Mirthxx (January 13, 2014 9:02 am)

Mattlocked · January 13, 2014 9:06 am

I get your point.
But then again: They DID tell each other everything in the second episode, so rowing backwards a bit - or at least slow down - was quite "recreative", imo.
Just to make sure it will not become a kind of soap opera.

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 9:48 am

Swanpride wrote:
Plus, the bravery of a soldier...John wouldn't act that way in front of Mycroft. (Why do I have the feeling that he still feels a lot of resentment towards him? While he phoned him about Sherlock being drugged, he wasn't exactly nice to him when Sherlock attacked him and threw him out of the flat). Even at the grave he waited until Mrs. Hudson was gone and he could adress Sherlock on his own.

Fair point, my feelings about all this are rather in a turmoil right now. Part of me thinks it's the only way John would ever react in such a moment, part of me would have wanted much more, an acknowledgement of Sherlock having saved Mary's life and thus their future together by shooting CAM, a final "thank you". But then John being emotional with Mycroft Holmes looking on? Never.

kazza474 · January 13, 2014 9:56 am

Regardless of who you are, a friend committing suicide in front of you is rather disturbing.

A friend leaving to possibly never be seen again, happens quite a lot & let's face it if it's Sherlock, anything is possible. I doubt John became emotional in anyway when leaving the army pals he fought with. Shake of the hand etc. If he HAD have been emotional at Sherlock's departure, it would have sunk the series into the soap opera box forever.

Mattlocked · January 13, 2014 9:59 am

kazza474 wrote:
Regardless of who you are, a friend committing suicide in front of you is rather disturbing.

A friend leaving to possibly never be seen again, happens quite a lot & let's face it if it's Sherlock, anything is possible. I doubt John became emotional in anyway when leaving the army pals he fought with. Shake of the hand etc. If he HAD have been emotional at Sherlock's departure, it would have sunk the series into the soap opera box forever.

Right.

Hera · January 13, 2014 9:59 am

I think John's too overwhelmed by everything that happened to really express what he feels. He's still angry at and hurt by Mary .. and he can't really say "Thank you" can he? That would feel very wrong and not do justice to the situation. Also, maybe, he suspects, Sherlock will come back eventually. Sherlock came back from the dead, so why not come back from the east?

We'll see how it all turns out, but I very much hope that John shows how much Sherlock really means to him in the next series. I don't care, if some people think it becomes "soap opera" style. For me "BBC Sherlock" is special, because they are not afraid to show emotions.

Last edited by Hera (January 13, 2014 10:13 am)

kazza474 · January 13, 2014 10:02 am

Hera wrote:
We'll see how it all turns out, but I very much hope that John shows how much Sherlock really means to him in the next series.

He asked him to be best man at his wedding, do men often 'do' something else to 'show how much' friends really mean to them? I'm confused as to what people think he should have done or should do.

Hera · January 13, 2014 10:06 am

kazza474 wrote:
Hera wrote:
We'll see how it all turns out, but I very much hope that John shows how much Sherlock really means to him in the next series.
He asked him to be best man at his wedding, do men often 'do' something else to 'show how much' friends really mean to them? I'm confused as to what people think he should have done or should do.

Sherlock sacrificed his life for John. Sherlock came from the dead for John. - So something like that would be nice. Otherwise their relationship would be very unbalanced. I love "BBC Sherlock" because they have an unusual relationship. Not because they are just "normal" friends who happen to solve crimes together now and then. For me, it's a love story. Not sexually, but in a brotherly way. If that love story doesn't exist anymore, then the show will become rather pointless to me.

But I have faith in Moffat, so no worries.

Last edited by Hera (January 13, 2014 10:09 am)

beekeeper · January 13, 2014 10:09 am

I have to say, I liked the ending. John clearly made a choice, between the adrenalin junkie life of old, where he spent two years grieving Sherlock only for him to treat it all as a joke, and his new life. I don't think anyone who knows Mycroft and Sherlock would actually believe for a moment that Sherlock WAS going on an actual suicide mission. John really must be "yeah, ok, see you in a few months then" at this point.

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 10:11 am

beekeeper wrote:
I don't think anyone who knows Mycroft and Sherlock would actually believe for a moment that Sherlock WAS going on an actual suicide mission. John really must be "yeah, ok, see you in a few months then" at this point.

John knows nothing about the significance of Mycroft's 6-month prediction. He's no reason to believe Sherlock won't either come back, or then be sent on another mission. He's unaware of the possibility he won't survive it.