BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The other brother

dartmoordoggers · January 18, 2014 5:11 pm

Is it possible that the other brother is someone Sherlock doesn't know about. For example a half brother from an affair.
Not that it helps us either way but the 'photo we never see' in Sherlocks bedroom is just of Sherlock and Mycroft as children.

holmes23 · January 18, 2014 5:18 pm

Does brotherly compassion include compassion for one's sisters as well?

If so, then it's interesting to hear SH in Copper Beeches, “I confess that it is not the situation which I should like to see a sister of mine apply for.”

It can't be an hypothetical sentence, especially when ACD knew how to use one:
"You owe a very humble apology to that noble lad, your son, who has carried himself in this matter as I should be proud to see my own son do, should I ever chance to have one"(SH in Beryle Coronet)

The question of whether SH got any sisters was well discussed in canon circles and I got these examples from there

Last edited by holmes23 (January 18, 2014 5:21 pm)

shezza · January 18, 2014 5:32 pm

^“I confess that it is not the situation which I should like to see a sister of mine apply for.”

I'm not a native speaker but I think this sentence could be perfectly hypothetical

besleybean · January 18, 2014 5:39 pm

Certainly is.

Willow · January 18, 2014 5:43 pm

shezza wrote:
^“I confess that it is not the situation which I should like to see a sister of mine apply for.”

I'm not a native speaker but I think this sentence could be perfectly hypothetical

I am a native speaker and I do think it could be perfectly hypothetical; however, Mycroft's use of 'brotherly compassion' is ambiguous. Our language lacks those handy bits which identify gender in many other languages, and the writers enjoyed themselves with 'Harry'.

On the other hand, my hypothetical mad brother in a straitjacket (a la Moriarty in Sherlock's mind when he was dying) being trotted out as the guy who had shot CAM wouldn't work if it's a sister, so I'm sticking with brother...

silverblaze · January 18, 2014 7:28 pm

They can't take the whole Baring Gould thing for canon as it would be contradictory to some of their pieces, though I do like the idea of Holmes having an affair with Irene. They'll just pick and choose, like they always do.

If they create a Sherrinford I'm sure it won't be a big thing, he's probably dead already.

The Doctor · January 19, 2014 1:13 am

Still,

"The most influential "biography" of Holmes is Sherlock Holmes of Baker Street by Baring-Gould. Faced with Holmes' reticence about his family background and early life, Baring-Gould invented one for him. According to Baring-Gould, Sherlock Holmes was born in Yorkshire, the youngest of three sons of Siger Holmes and Violet Sherrinford. The middle brother, Mycroft, appears in the canon, but the eldest, Sherrinford Holmes, was invented by Baring-Gould to free Mycroft and Sherlock from the obligation of following Siger as a country squire. (In reality, "Sherrinford Holmes" was one of the names Arthur Conan Doyle considered for his hero before settling on "Sherlock".) Siger Holmes' name is derived from "The Adventure of the Empty House", in which Sherlock spends some time pretending to be a Norwegian mountaineer called Sigerson. (This hardly qualifies as a clue about the name of Sherlock's father, but in the absence of any genuine clues it was the best Baring-Gould had to work with.)"

besleybean · January 19, 2014 8:18 am

Yay, Sherlock and I are both from Yorkshire!

Jacco111 · January 19, 2014 10:00 am

I think that no Holmesian really takes the Baring-Gould theories really seriously, because there just isn't evidence. It is interesting to philosophise (probably misspelled this) and think about it.

besleybean · January 19, 2014 10:16 am

I've never read them.

shezza · January 19, 2014 1:09 pm

Moffat said Sherlock's parents are rich but judging from the series they don't currently own an estate or a manor (like B-G posited), so who knows what "Sherrinford" did/does as a living.

Just for fun:
ACD in The Greek Interpreter wrote that Sherlock was born in a country estate in North Yorkshire. Baring-Gould then theorised that Sherlock spent most of his childhood traveling through Europe with his family... his father supposedly was an ex-cavalry officer turned gardener and made his family travel in a gypsy wagon LOL According to B-G they spent most of the time in France, since Mrs Holmes is half-French (according to ACD, she was painter Vernet's niece), in hopes of ameliorating young Sherlock's feeble health.

The way young Sherlock was dressed in TEH, btw, did make me think of a kind of sickly boy from a posh family, and I think Moftiss were going in the direction of slightly kooky/eccentric British folks with Mr and Mrs Holmes, in the vein of B-G. I can envision them as loving but kind of "spacey" parents, if that makes any sense... well intentioned but not actually prepared to manage two (or three!) genius boys, which resulted in Sherlock's comment to Mrs Hudson ("My mother has a lot to answer for... I have a list, Mycroft's got a file" and the infamous ASiB quote "I'll be mother" "And there's a whole childhood in a nutshell") . All in all I think Moftiss are taking some of B-G's oeuvre in consideration... of course not everything, but some. We'll see in season 4 if they're going to explore more Sherlock's past.

emergencyfan · January 21, 2014 12:16 am

While I love the idea of Moriarty as the 3rd brother, I just can't see the logistics. Supposedly mom is the smart one and that's where all three boys would have gotten their brains. So the connection (assuming the 3rd brother would be a bad guy half brother), would be through Mom. Sherlock and Moriarty aren't that far apart in age so how would Mom have hidden the pregnancy? Besides, the parents are so darn cute together, I can't imagine an affair.

However, what if brother #3 was CAM? It explains why Mycroft was protecting him "If you go against Magnussen then you will find yourself going against me" (sounds like a brotherly thing to say) and the almost devastated look on his face as Sherlock replies "I'll let you know if I notice." Also explains why he was so emotional (helicopter scene) when Sherlock shot CAM. Sherlock shot their own half brother and didn't know. Surely Mycroft has ordered the death of plenty of people and though he showed some affection during the Christmas smoking scene, I'm not sure Sherlock killing a nasty would have really bothered him all that much.

Also, CAM seems like he could be older than Mycroft so Dad could have (unknowingly) fathered him in Denmark before marrying their Mom. We don't know what Dad did for a living. (I picture him as a spy seducing CAM's mother, that's why he and Mary get on so well.) And in the books, the third brother was the eldest who managed the family estate (Appledor-ish?).

But why/how would Lady Smallwood and the rest know about a third brother and Sherlock not? Once CAM was dead, Mycroft could have shared the relationship with some of the key people though I don't know why he would--perhaps guilt over Lady Smallwood's husband's suicide in explanation why he didn't stop CAM from blackmailing her? If he had already decided to send Sherlock off to the fatal undercover job, he wouldn't have to worry about Sherlock finding out before he died (in Eastern Europe in 6 months time).

Another reason Mycroft didn't go after CAM could be because CAM knew he was their brother but agreed not to tell Sherlock, Mom or Dad so long as Mycroft didn't interfere with his plans.

All this goes out the window if Sherlock knows about the brother because it can't be either Moriarty or CAM. Despite his "sociopath" personality, I don't think he could bring himself to knowingly kill (or cause the death) of his own brother.

CAM shares the same lack of emotion and human connection as both brothers. But then, so does Moriarty.

It's certainly great fun thinking about all of it.

emergencyfan · January 23, 2014 12:18 am

In "The Empty Hearse" Sherlock puts on his coat after he gets cleaned up from his European adventure and by way of saying goodbye to his brother, uses the term "blood." A subtle hint that brother #3 is not truly a blood relation while Mycroft is?

clareiow · January 23, 2014 12:48 am

Blood is a kind of street slang phrase used by young Londoners and those in gangs - that and Bred'ren (i think that's how you spell it).

I took it that Sherlock has been mixing in gangs while undercover.

I like the assumption of CAM being related but at the same time he was quite old, too old to be Mrs Holmes's.
I think "the other one" could be a whole new adversary.
Or Moffat and Gatiss will never answer the question!!

besleybean · January 23, 2014 6:46 am

I think it quite clearly refers to another Holmes brother, that is about all we know at this stage!

Last edited by besleybean (January 23, 2014 6:46 am)

silverblaze · January 23, 2014 1:08 pm

I think the dialogue approaches their relationship better.

Mycroft: 'I consider him under my protection.'
Sherlock: 'I consider you under his thumb.'

It would really surprise me if CAM was the brother, he wouldn't have been blonde and Milverton wasn't related to Sherlock in canon. I'd be quite a stretch.
I also doubt that Mycroft knew that the suicide was related to CAM, Lady Smallwood would never tell him if she was blackmailed.

zeratul · January 23, 2014 1:10 pm

But didn't Sherlock tell Mycroft about who the case was for? I'm not sure quite now.

dartmoordoggers · January 23, 2014 1:17 pm

zeratul wrote:
But didn't Sherlock tell Mycroft about who the case was for? I'm not sure quite now.

No.
That would have been a bit odd as in this episode at least Mycroft is answerable to Lady Smallwood.

silverblaze · January 23, 2014 1:51 pm

That would be a serious breach of client confidentiality, which is very important for Sherlock's work. He wouldn't have many clients if he blabbed everything to the head of the secret service/ secret shadow government big brother. Who protects CAM. No, if Mycroft knew about lady Smallwood, it wasn't through Sherlock.

lil · January 23, 2014 3:07 pm

I thought in the coat scene , Sherlock being eager to see his coat and calling it brother was just a dig/poke/joke at Mycroft...his coat is more a brother to him type lol.
Tht was my take on the blud thing.