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May 24, 2015 2:39 pm  #101


Re: Redbeard

Yes, that too.  And yet he could never really stop caring even if it worked for some things.  There's an internal battle there, at least some of the time.


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Clueing for looks.
 

May 24, 2015 2:43 pm  #102


Re: Redbeard

Yeah, there is. He was never as good at that not-caring thing as Mycroft is, even though he wants to be.

Last edited by Vhanja (May 24, 2015 2:43 pm)


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September 10, 2015 10:13 am  #103


Re: Redbeard

So far I have been a bit skeptical about the idea that Redbeard could be identical with The Other One. But then I read this here and it made me think again. We know how the writers use narrative and visual parallels all through the show. So it might indeed be possible that both Henry Knight and Sherlock associate the death of someone close with a dog. 

http://thepansythug.tumblr.com/post/128768031344/johnwatsontm-wellthengameover-henry-knight


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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September 10, 2015 1:30 pm  #104


Re: Redbeard

It could be possible, but I'm sceptical.  Even if it were true, I doubt that that would mean that cuddling Redbeard would help him relax after he'd been shot.  If Mycroft and Sherlock's relationship is any indication, the Holmes brothers don't exactly have the warmest fraternal relationship.  Also, if only Sherlock had used that coping mechanism in his mind, why would Mycroft know about it? I doubt that's something Sherlock would tell Mycroft about.  Mycroft would just look down on him for it.


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Clueing for looks.
 

September 10, 2015 3:13 pm  #105


Re: Redbeard

Two things:

At the wedding Mycroft uses Redbeard as a codeword, a warning not to get emotional because it makes you vulnerable. It is basically a repetition of "caring is not an advantage". 

I do not think Mycroft knows about Sherlock uses the dog as a coping mechanism while dying. In the mind palace he just tells Sherlock to find something. I think we can agree that the dog is only second-best. Sherlock first tries to find John - he is running through the hallway of Roland Kerr College from ASiP where John saved him - but then meets Mary as a bride and is symbolically shot by her. So he has to find something else. If I am not mistaken, it is not Mycroft who tells him to find the dog, it is Sherlock himself. And we should remember that all the people he meets in the mind palace are just reflections of his own subconscious. 

P.S. I have been skeptical about the Redbeard theory and I still not completely convinced. But the parallel to HoB is interesting. 

Last edited by SusiGo (September 10, 2015 3:13 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

September 10, 2015 3:34 pm  #106


Re: Redbeard

Yes, it's an interesting theory.

I did not mean to imply that Mycroft told Sherlock to find the dog to relax.  Molly in Sherlock's Mind Palace did, so Sherlock himself.

When I was referring to Mycroft, I was talking about the phone conversation during the wedding reception.

I was kind of in a hurry when I first posted, so for clarification: If Redbeard was a coping mechanism, I doubt Sherlock would tell Mycroft about it, in which case Mycroft wouldn't mention it to him over the phone.  So Mycroft knows about Redbeard.  I doubt it's a coping mechanism.  If Redbeard died at some point and Sherlock was sad, then I think Mycroft wanted to use that to remind Sherlock of why caring and getting involved is not an advantage.
In that case, Redbeard can't be a substituion for someone else.  And either way, I doubt any person would have helped Sherlock relax other than John, if he was looking for John.


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Clueing for looks.
 

September 14, 2015 5:08 pm  #107


Re: Redbeard

Somebody has probably asked this but-- how in the holy heck did Magnussen know about Redbeard?????

 

September 14, 2015 5:27 pm  #108


Re: Redbeard

Can you refer to scene where we know this? I don't recall Magnussen knowing about Redbeard.


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Clueing for looks.
 

September 14, 2015 5:43 pm  #109


Re: Redbeard

Yitzock wrote:

Can you refer to scene where we know this? I don't recall Magnussen knowing about Redbeard.

When Magnussen was using Sherlock's fireplace as a urinal. 

 

September 14, 2015 8:51 pm  #110


Re: Redbeard

Yes, he has Redbeard down as one of Sherlock's pressure points when he "scans" him.

It's pretty scary that he knows about this. The only two people I can think of who he could have learned it from are Mycroft, and Moriarty (via Mycroft). Or perhaps Kitty Riley (via Rich Brook). Or Janine (via Moriarty). Hmm, that's four people, I obviously can't count!

Last edited by ukaunz (September 14, 2015 8:54 pm)


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September 14, 2015 9:28 pm  #111


Re: Redbeard

ukaunz wrote:

Yes, he has Redbeard down as one of Sherlock's pressure points when he "scans" him.

It's pretty scary that he knows about this. The only two people I can think of who he could have learned it from are Mycroft, and Moriarty (via Mycroft). Or perhaps Kitty Riley (via Rich Brook). Or Janine (via Moriarty). Hmm, that's four people, I obviously can't count!

 
Possibly the parents? Dad, maybe?

Or, Moriarty....

 

September 14, 2015 9:28 pm  #112


Re: Redbeard

Mummy and Daddy? "the other one"?


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September 14, 2015 9:47 pm  #113


Re: Redbeard

Yes, I said Moriarty Don't know anything about the Other One yet, but it would be worrying if Magnussen got the info out of either of Sherlock's parents. You'd hope they know how to be discreet with a son in the Government/MI5/MI6 and the other a detective/spy (do they know what Sherlock was doing during those 2 years he was "dead"?)

Last edited by ukaunz (September 14, 2015 9:48 pm)


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September 14, 2015 9:54 pm  #114


Re: Redbeard

Hmm...I guess I just never noticed that that was listed as one of the pressure points.  When I watched that episode I was more struck by the quanitity rather than what they actually were.
The possibilities of who he could have found that out from have already been listed by you guys, so I can't say I have any other idea.  Molly is the figure who suggests Sherlock relax when he's in his mind palace, so could it be that she knows about it in real life? Even though Sherlock may not confide in people much, if at all, we do know he trusts her.  I just don't know how Magnussen would have gotten to her.
Although if Magnussen is a Rupert Murdoch-type figure, then it could be that he has access to phone records and things like that, so if it was ever transmitted through electronic communication he could know if he had access to that information.

Last edited by Yitzock (September 14, 2015 9:54 pm)


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Clueing for looks.
 

September 14, 2015 10:38 pm  #115


Re: Redbeard

It just seems awfully private for Magnusson to get through electronic means-- Sherlock was a little kid, when this happened...

 

September 14, 2015 11:43 pm  #116


Re: Redbeard

I would agree that he couldn't have found out about it when it happened. But if something about it was communicated later on through something that can be surveilled or otherwise catalogued, then Magnussen could have possibly had access to it.


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Clueing for looks.
 

September 15, 2015 2:35 am  #117


Re: Redbeard

Mycroft mentioned Redbeard over the phone to Sherlock in TSoT. If Magnussen did indeed have a way of tapping the line or listening in through surveillance (a spy at the wedding?), he would then have had to dig around to find out what it meant.


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September 15, 2015 4:36 am  #118


Re: Redbeard

ukaunz wrote:

Mycroft mentioned Redbeard over the phone to Sherlock in TSoT. If Magnussen did indeed have a way of tapping the line or listening in through surveillance (a spy at the wedding?), he would then have had to dig around to find out what it meant.

I always wondered why Mycroft mentioned Redbeard on the phone first place. Maybe to confirm that Magnussen is spying him out?


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September 15, 2015 5:18 am  #119


Re: Redbeard

Yitzock wrote:

Hmm...I guess I just never noticed that that was listed as one of the pressure points.  When I watched that episode I was more struck by the quanitity rather than what they actually were.

But we didn't just see it listed, Magnussen also said the word. While 'reading' Sherlock's 'file' he says "Redbeard" and you can see how Sherlock stiffens.


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September 15, 2015 5:30 am  #120


 

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