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April 1, 2012 4:16 pm  #1


Sherlock's Deductions

What do you think of Sherlock's amazing deductions and what are some of your favourite ones? And are there any you think are too far fetched or unrealistic?

My two favourite at the moment both involve Sherlock using his phone to confirm his ideas, something which I think is really cleverly done.

1. The Pink Lady - the way he checks the weather report and manages to deduce she's come from Cardiff...it's just so cool. The only thing I don't really like about this one is the whole wedding ring idea and that the inside of her wedding ring would be clean because she works it off her finger therefore she's a serial adulterer. I can understand how he worked out she was unhappily married - because all her other rings are regularly cleaned and polished but she doesn't bother cleaning her wedding ring, so the outside is dirty. But the part about the inside being clean - why would the inside be dirty anyway? I don't see how it could actually get dirty if it's just on your finger and not exposed to any outside elements.
2. The Dead Security Guard - at first it seems a little far fetched but when he uses his phone to check local museums/art galleries and finds that one of them has reported a staff member missing, all the little pieces fall into place.

The one where he deduces all that info about John in Study In Pink is really good too, although I do find the scratches on the phone a bit unrealistic. Since then I've been examining the phones of everyone I know...mine has lots of scratches on it simply because I can never plug it in properly (not because I'm drunk), whereas my Mum who drinks a lot more than me (not saying she's an alcoholic or anything but I hardly drink at all), well she has absolutely no scratches on hers, her phone is like absolutley perfect...

Also, the one where he deduces that Van Coon is left handed because of all the left handed things in the flat. Well since the thread where we were talking about Moriary/Richard Brook and the whole left/right handed thing, I kind of started to question that...especially when I noticed that my father drinks his tea with his right hand despite being left handed. But then I reasoned that in the case of Van Coon, it was the combination of so many different things that pointed to his left handedness. If it had just been one item on it's own, it would have been a lot more difficult to make the deduction, but it was the fact that there were lots of leftie things in his flat. And I guess that story goes for a lot of the deductions - it's a combination of lots of little pieces that all fit together to make the bigger picture, and without one of those items the whole thing might fall through or not stand up to be true.

What do you guys think about it all anyway? Do you think it's possible to make deductions like that in real life and get them spot on with the same regularity that Sherlock does?


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April 1, 2012 10:12 pm  #2


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Haven't got time to read your post completely this morning - I'll come back to it. But in the left-handed thing; the power points part was a bit far fetched but the butter on the right side of the knife is pretty definitive. I don't know any lefties who spread their toast with their right hand.


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June 4, 2012 3:34 am  #3


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

I'm glad to have found this older post (heh heh, only on internet forums would two months ago be considered older).

One of my biggest gripes is with the scene in HoB, when Sherlock guesses what's-his-name's password, just because he realizes he likes Margaret Thatcher. "Maggie" certainly is a reasonable guess, but so would be "Thatch" or "ironlady". What if the password required numbers or characters? Since the whole discover of the meaning of H.O.U.N.D. depended on Sherlock being right, I'm just not buying it. Weak.

And all the little instant deductions that he has, shown by words on the screen. That was a great idea by the writers, and I enjoy those moments. But, think about when Sherlock looks at Watson, after not being able to read Irene's face. "New toothbrush", "out late last night"? Nope. Not convinced.


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June 4, 2012 3:52 am  #4


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Tantalus wrote:

I'm glad to have found this older post (heh heh, only on internet forums would two months ago be considered older).

One of my biggest gripes is with the scene in HoB, when Sherlock guesses what's-his-name's password, just because he realizes he likes Margaret Thatcher. "Maggie" certainly is a reasonable guess, but so would be "Thatch" or "ironlady". What if the password required numbers or characters? Since the whole discover of the meaning of H.O.U.N.D. depended on Sherlock being right, I'm just not buying it. Weak.

And all the little instant deductions that he has, shown by words on the screen. That was a great idea by the writers, and I enjoy those moments. But, think about when Sherlock looks at Watson, after not being able to read Irene's face. "New toothbrush", "out late last night"? Nope. Not convinced.

Remember, the 'password maker' was like me, of the older generation. We didn't grow up with computers and passwords etc. so it's not second nature to make up new ones. He used the old 'line of sight' method to get one because frankly, I have  trouble remembering what the heck the password was everyday unless I have a standard one. Password (to me for years) meant a WORD, nothing more.
His political persuasions led Sherlock to Margaret Thatcher and her nickname was in fact Maggie. I'm not British, but I have never heard her called 'Thatch' and 'Ironlady' isn't really a nickname of endearment if you were an ardent follower.
Hence to me Maggie was the obvious choice.

And things like the 'toothbrush/out late' etc were deductions, nothing was actually proven with those; he's been wrong before.  But they were basically done as an exercise to see IF his deductive powers were working ok. And he proved to himself that they were still churning out ideas, just not on Irene.


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June 4, 2012 12:18 pm  #5


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Also it is worth bearing in mind that when these deductions appear on people sometimes they are not to be taken entirely seriously. The classic is the scene in the Palace in SiB where they appear on the equerry and one of them says 'half-Welsh'. If you get the DVDs with commentary you hear that the writers think this is hilarious.


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June 4, 2012 1:03 pm  #6


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Yeah remember in Study in Pink when Sherlock says he never guesses and John just grins and says "yes you do"...Deductions are based upon observations and then applying logic, reasoning, past knowledge etc to those observations. And yes, he doesn't always get everything right, like when he thought Harry was John's brother and when he found out it was his sister he said, "there's always something," indicating that there are regular instances where he might get things wrong.

I don't mind the one in the palace so much because yes he was really just testing himself on John, because he was finding it so difficult to read Irene. Some of those were pretty outlandish and might not have been correct if he'd actually tested them out, although I should imagine about 80 to 90% of them would be!

The password guessing in Hounds...i'm happy that he went for Maggie...it's a term of affection amongst her supporters and quite common a nickname for her, much more so than Ironlady etc. I'm still not sure why he decided it would definitely be Thatcher and not Churchill though, because he had loads of Churchill books too, just as many as he had Maggie Thatcher books.


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April 21, 2015 1:34 pm  #7


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

I was surprised that Maggies was even admissible as a password - fewer than 8 characters, no figures...

Regarding the deductions: I was bothered by the ring in ASiP as well, but maybe some married users could chime in here. I would have thought that a wedding ring doesn't need special cleaning because it gets washed and polished every time you wash your hands. The only ring I wear occasionally is made from brass, and it certainly looks better at the end of the day than when I put it on (after it had been quietly oxydizing  in its box for a few weeks).

Do flightcases even cause a splash patterns up one's leg? That would mean one had to change after walking through the rain with one... Frankly, I have my doubts... (but not the right trolley to test )

Another thing, and here I'm sure: It's absolutely unfair to deduct "psychosomatic limp" when the limper does not ask for a chair when standing. It's perfectly possible to have a mobility problem that does not bother one when one's standing still (like my father). Or maybe one doesn't want to draw special attention to one's handicap (like me, on occasion). Or maybe sitting down and getting up is just more trouble than it's worth for a talk that won't take very long.

I'd say quite a lot of the time Sherlock is simply jumping to conclusions, which are mostly correct because the script writer was on his side. Which is why I love that Harry stands for Harriet
 

 

April 21, 2015 2:39 pm  #8


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Kittyhawk wrote:

I'd say quite a lot of the time Sherlock is simply jumping to conclusions, which are mostly correct because the script writer was on his side. Which is why I love that Harry stands for Harriet
 

Questioning Sherlock´s deductions that way is like questioning Peter Pan´s flying - althrough fully fictive, the audience must accept this special gift or ability of the main protagonist, if it wants to enjoy the story, because in this case it is a pole around which the universe of this fictional world oscillates. Take it away and it collapses into nothing. What good does it to watch the series about the detective of Sherlock´s type, if the spectator cannot accept the basic premise of this fictive universe?
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 21, 2015 2:45 pm  #9


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Oh I do accept that Sherlock Holmes had exceptional powers of observation and could make logical deductions from them. I just don't think that all of what we see in the show is a convincing representation of Sherlock's ability!
And I have absolutely no idea who or what Peter Pan is...

 

April 21, 2015 2:57 pm  #10


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Peter Pan is a main character from the well-known English childrens story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pan

If you never heard about him than replace his name with "Superman" in my post above.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 21, 2015 3:27 pm  #11


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

nakahara wrote:

the audience must accept this special gift or ability of the main protagonist, if it wants to enjoy the story, because in this case it is a pole around which the universe of this fictional world oscillates. Take it away and it collapses into nothing. What good does it to watch the series about the detective of Sherlock´s type, if the spectator cannot accept the basic premise of this fictive universe?
 

I agree that there's always a pact between an audience and a fiction. We could not accept any fiction as sustainable otherwise.
But, there's a difference between noticing something inconsistent at first sight and looking for inconsistent details after. that's the difference between sustainable and "beyond reproach"
I don't care about "beyond reproach" , but I need the sustainablet to fully enjoy.
The "maggie" password did disturb me because, as soon as Sherlock Holmes found it, I thought " how a military classified computer account can be allowed to have such a simple password?"
Did I not enjoy the show because of it?... not, but it stayed in my mind as a flaw.
Then,  I'm not sure looking for little missing or inconsistent details breaks the magic, when you love a work . After all, it's been a holmesian game for more than 100 years. Most of the time, i didn't notice what Conan Doyle had messed up in the adventures, and found it hilarious when readers were pointing messed up details and were looking for theories squaring the circle ( hilarious, but not in a ironic way) .

 

April 21, 2015 3:47 pm  #12


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

I love his deductions. In general I find them really clever and well put together, but sometimes they are a bit of a stretch. Everything has to be according to his "balance of probability" to be correct, and there are exceptions to the majority more than what we see in the show.

However, it's not something that bothers me. As nakahara writes, I accept his "skills" or "gift" as part of the show. As long as there is still a thread linking the deduction to something tangible, I'm ok with it.


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April 21, 2015 4:15 pm  #13


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

I realize my last post could be misunderstood, so I want to make it clear that I don't put opposite the show which would contain " disturbing flaws" to the original adventures which would only contains "small inconsistent details"
No, I do like and enjoy the show, as it is,as much as the original adventures (well, maybe not "as much" because it's a lifetime love story between Conan Doyle books ans me, but still, i do like the show very much).
Btw, there's no mistake in the way Sherlock Holmes deduces the password, but the choice of the password itself by the writers is a mistake

 

April 21, 2015 6:59 pm  #14


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

I understand what you mean, NatureNo and I agree. There´s nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes that appear in the plot. I just objected to questioning Sherlock´s ability to make deductions as if it was a similar mistake - when it´s an actual premise of the show. 

(Plus, I would really take pity over the authors here - deductions are the hardest part of the story to write, IMHO, so if some of them are not stellar, it´s not for their lack of trying.)


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

September 11, 2015 10:04 pm  #15


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Hmmm and this is how would it look if laws of our real world applied comcerning Sherlock´s deductive ability. It would be a short show, certainly. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKQOk5UlQSc


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

September 12, 2015 7:33 am  #16


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

That's funny

I struggle with my phone connection because of poor eyesight.  But it doesn't leave scratches (although maybe my eyesight isn't good enough to see them!). 
 

 

September 12, 2015 2:29 pm  #17


Re: Sherlock's Deductions

Oh my god! That was pretty funny.
I guess this Mike Stamford does't go out drinking with John.

I usually don't gete the chargers plugged in immediately, either, but it doesn't scratch because I don't go at it really hard.  I can see why I drunk's hand might, though.
 



Clueing for looks.
 

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