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January 13, 2014 11:31 am  #41


Re: Did you miss me?

We should take into account that Moriarty was seen after the credits. His former appearance in the plotline made perfect sense but the last encounter with him was cut outside the actual series.

IMO, this should cast doubt on our previous perception of simply everything we saw or thought we saw.
CAM stands for "knowledge is power".
John prefers not to know and can happily burn the knowledge about Mary and stick his head into the sand of love.
What about Sherlock?

What can we ever know about BBC Sherlock or "our" Sherlock? Moriarty after the credits looks like a clue for us to overthink and acknowledge that we don't know anything. TEH was IMO just crack theories. John coping with his friends suicide. The Sign of Three was fluffy Sherlock for the sake of emotions. A fairy tale in retrospect gone wrong. His last vow showed us the dark side of the coin all danger, adrenalin and everything goes to hell. A bit of a replay of TRF.

Sherlock Holmes is famous for imagination, theories, looking for proof and either verify or falsify them.
When assumptions are wrong and they are obviously almost all wrong, we need to change the theory. It's a big step to be able to do that.
In TBB Sherlock told Dimmock and John off: You have a theory you like, but your're choosing to ignore anything that doesn't comply with it.

Why not be aware now that we were made believe or that we wanted to believe and have a fresh look at the whole Sherlock starting with series 1?

Sherlock asked Kitty at the toilet: Look at me and tell me what you see.

 

January 13, 2014 11:51 am  #42


Re: Did you miss me?

As for Mary meeting John because she was assigned to kill him...nonsense! She has had anew identity for 5 years and hasn't been killing anyone. They only met fairly recently.

m0r I bet you were over the moon by Moriarty's reappearance at the end! 

Just because a load of photos and a broadcast appear does not mean he is alive. If it is the same Moriarty and he didn't die on the roof I will be very, very disappointed in the writers!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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January 13, 2014 12:09 pm  #43


Re: Did you miss me?

Swanpride wrote:

I doubt that Morarty would have just sat back and allowed Sherlock to dismantle his network if he still had been alive.

I also doubt that the government people act that scared because there is Moriarty, but more because someone just managed to send a threatening message over all channels.

I agree with this.

 

January 13, 2014 12:10 pm  #44


Re: Did you miss me?

Davina wrote:

Just because a load of photos and a broadcast appear does not mean he is alive. If it is the same Moriarty and he didn't die on the roof I will be very, very disappointed in the writers!

 
Oh I don't think you'll be disappointed. Let's face it, a lot of photos, videos and even newspaper articles appeared about Richard Brook didn't they?
And look how that turned out?
Surely another 'consulting something or rather' could do the same as Moriarty with Moriarty's image to instill fear into the British Government ensuring they keep the ONE person who can beat this guy around for as long as it takes to catch him?
What an insurance policy that would be, having that sort of a weapon to unleash on society, an elusive Moriarty stalking in the underworld somewhere.
Now who would find that beneficial to their well being & longevity if they got into another sticky situation???

And as far as producing a show like that, wouldn't that keep the squeeing public intrigued for a while?
Appear to be giving them what they asked for.
After all, they have done that already this series several times, why wouldn't they keep doing it?

LOL!


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

January 13, 2014 12:17 pm  #45


Re: Did you miss me?

I said it in another thread, too, but this could also be a possibiity: Whether this was really Moriarty - I doubt that - we will see. Maybe another villain.
Or just Mycroft. His first words to Sherlock, when Moriarty is back on scene are: "Have you learnt your lesson?" As if the starting plane was a kind of lesson/punishment (and that it was obviously to Sherlock) and never meant to reach a destination. As if he knew that the exile will be very short. He could have arranged that all to get his brother out of the official penal system, imo that´s also a possibility. And material about Moriarty to make a little film clip he should have enough .

Last edited by anjaH_alias (January 13, 2014 12:18 pm)

 

January 13, 2014 12:31 pm  #46


Re: Did you miss me?

I think the "Have you learnt your lesson?" comment was meant to sound like Mycroft is still the alpha-Holmes in control of the situation. I don't know how to explain it better.
I'm convinced he really meant to send him off (though he probably would have got him home safely before anything could happen to Sherlock).


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January 13, 2014 12:34 pm  #47


Re: Did you miss me?

MissMe? wrote:

I think the "Have you learnt your lesson?" comment was meant to sound like Mycroft is still the alpha-Holmes in control of the situation. I don't know how to explain it better.
I'm convinced he really meant to send him off (though he probably would have got him home safely before anything could happen to Sherlock).

Doubtless he will be the alpha-Holmes. Also in my version.

 

January 13, 2014 12:39 pm  #48


Re: Did you miss me?

True But I don't think Mycroft had anything to do with Moriarty's little appearance. He seemed truly surprised.


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  "I just wanted to be a regular fan. I didn't choose this!"

       ~*I LIKE BIG BOOKS AND I CANNOT LIE *~

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January 13, 2014 12:43 pm  #49


Re: Did you miss me?

I have to watch it again. Just saw it once right now. And I don´t insist on that , it was just another possibility coming to my mind.

 

January 13, 2014 12:50 pm  #50


Re: Did you miss me?

anjaH_alias wrote:

I have to watch it again. Just saw it once right now. And I don´t insist on that , it was just another possibility coming to my mind.

I only watched it once last night, so I could be mistaken as well. Don't stone me if my comment turns out to be rubbish http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I just wanted to be a regular fan. I didn't choose this!"

       ~*I LIKE BIG BOOKS AND I CANNOT LIE *~

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January 13, 2014 12:57 pm  #51


Re: Did you miss me?

Ozma wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see series 4 start with Sherlock excitedly putting his coat on to go after Moriarty, and Mycroft chirping 'Where are you going? I made that video you dumbass'

I'm with Ozma and Anja on this. That video looked fake, very fake. Mycroft has a motive to make something like that and he has the opportunity. 

That and I was shocked that Mycroft might kill his brother, like literally kill to death, with the secret mission thing. I hope it isn't true. The fact that Mycroft wanted Sherlock to go on the mission rather than to prison suggests that he had something planned, otherwise he wouldn't choose death over imprisonment. The 'I hope you've learned your lesson' seems a bit telling as well. And surely Mycroft would just be as good an actor as Sherlock. 

Maybe Mycroft even foresaw Sherlock's intention to steal his laptop and was just playing along. What neither of them knew was Magnussen's mind palace. 
 

 

January 13, 2014 12:59 pm  #52


Re: Did you miss me?

And let's not forget; Mycroft, like Sherlock, just loves it when people think he's a psychopath. Only he's way better at pretending to be one. 

 

January 13, 2014 1:04 pm  #53


Re: Did you miss me?

Hm, now you got me reconsidering my thoughts. I have to watch it again tonight. And then some more.

However, let's not forget how Mycroft stood by when Sherlock was being tortured in TEH, so he probably wouldn't have minded Sherlock getting at least a little bit "punished" on his secret mission.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I just wanted to be a regular fan. I didn't choose this!"

       ~*I LIKE BIG BOOKS AND I CANNOT LIE *~

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January 13, 2014 1:07 pm  #54


Re: Did you miss me?

silverblaze wrote:

Ozma wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see series 4 start with Sherlock excitedly putting his coat on to go after Moriarty, and Mycroft chirping 'Where are you going? I made that video you dumbass'

I'm with Ozma and Anja on this. That video looked fake, very fake. Mycroft has a motive to make something like that and he has the opportunity. 

That and I was shocked that Mycroft might kill his brother, like literally kill to death, with the secret mission thing. I hope it isn't true. The fact that Mycroft wanted Sherlock to go on the mission rather than to prison suggests that he had something planned, otherwise he wouldn't choose death over imprisonment. The 'I hope you've learned your lesson' seems a bit telling as well. And surely Mycroft would just be as good an actor as Sherlock. 

Maybe Mycroft even foresaw Sherlock's intention to steal his laptop and was just playing along. What neither of them knew was Magnussen's mind palace. 
 

 
So you believe that Sherlock, who has been duped with fake videos, pictures etc before, would swallow the "Moriarty's alive" story even though he saw him kill himself & had some kind of plan to get rid of that body etc? I very much doubt that; and yes I do believe Mycroft would whisk his brother out of the country on a 'suicide mission'. Once out of the country & away from many prying eyes, Mycroft would have ... again... helped his brother escape death.  That's what he does; that's the facade of the relationship they want everyone to see.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

January 13, 2014 1:16 pm  #55


Re: Did you miss me?

kazza474 wrote:

that's the facade of the relationship they want everyone to see.

Facade?
No.
They deeply care for each other.

 


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
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January 13, 2014 1:17 pm  #56


Re: Did you miss me?

yes. Mycroft was buying time. As things were, he fought for the best possible solution available to them - but he wouldn't have just let him die.

 

January 13, 2014 1:18 pm  #57


Re: Did you miss me?

I just can't imagine that Mycroft would dupe the whole nation just to bring Sherlock back to London. He would prefer a less obvious method.


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“Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently, too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.”
Terry Pratchett - A Hat Full of Sky
 

January 13, 2014 1:20 pm  #58


Re: Did you miss me?

tobeornot221b wrote:

kazza474 wrote:

that's the facade of the relationship they want everyone to see.

Facade?
No.
They deeply care for each other.

 

 
Agree. Shown e.g. at the end when (and HOW) Mycroft says: "Oh Sherlock, what have you done?" And they cut in Sherlock as a boy.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

January 13, 2014 2:07 pm  #59


Re: Did you miss me?

I agree. They do care for each other in very, very Holmesian way. I think this has been made clear several  times already.  

 

January 13, 2014 2:23 pm  #60


Re: Did you miss me?

tobeornot221b wrote:

kazza474 wrote:

that's the facade of the relationship they want everyone to see.

Facade?
No.
They deeply care for each other.

 

 
That is what we call 'taking words out of context'.

Let me try again using the whole quote that relates to this:

kazza474 wrote:

 
.... and yes I do believe Mycroft would whisk his brother out of the country on a 'suicide mission'. Once out of the country & away from many prying eyes, Mycroft would have ... again... helped his brother escape death.  That's what he does; that's the facade of the relationship they want everyone to see.

 Or to put it another way;
- Mycroft is seen to punish his brother by exiling him. This is what the Government sees, the public sees and his friends see.
- Having done so, he then helps Sherlock in some way to ensure his safety. This is not  what the Government sees, the public sees and his friends see.
To add history to this:
- Mycroft has had many spats, disagreements & arguments publicly with his brother.

This shows that there is a facade, a public face to their relationship that suggests non-caring, distrust or even hatred to some degree because the Government, the public and even friends rarely see the brothers working together for a common cause, or having concern for the other one's well being.

In order for the pair to carry out undercover work, etc together it would be useful to keep that facade of disdain as their public image.

So in this instance I do believe Mycroft was indeed serious about exiling his brother as we saw.

Will all my posts be scrutinised this way? It may get tiresome.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

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