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January 7, 2014 7:54 pm  #41


Re: Red Beard Clue

Red Beard could be red herring. 

 

January 7, 2014 7:59 pm  #42


Re: Red Beard Clue

SolarSystem wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry.

Sherlock clearly sees that Mary is not the danger but that she's probably in danger which is why he vows to protect her. If she has got a secret which Sherlock knows about then it must be a secret that doesn't make her a bad person but rather a careful person and he obviously accepts that.

 
Totally agree.  If Sherlock thought for one minute that Mary was a danger he wouldn't hesitate to do something.  He's loyalties to John have no boundries. 
Just look at the little scene with Mary's Ex.  If he interfeared in something as small as that..........

Well, but it's possible for her to be both things at the same time... she could be in danger and at the same time be a danger to other people because of the people she herself is endangered by.
 

That of course. I was just trying to say that I don't believe for one second that she might have bad intentions. For me it rather seems like she wants to leave everything behind. Marry. Have a happy life. Forget about the past.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Falling is just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination."

"Sherlock Holmes is a great man, and I think one day—if we’re very very lucky—he might even be a good one."

"Would you like to-"
"-have dinner?"
"-solve crimes?"
"Oh"



 

January 7, 2014 10:51 pm  #43


Re: Red Beard Clue

Ozma wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

b2s wrote:

 
This... Are there any screenshots from the first ep. when he deduces her? Maybe some hidden clues in there...

I would say that there is nothing that indicates Sherlock has deduced more about Mary and keeps this from John. Why would he do that? Why would he allow his best friend to marry a woman who has secrets? Or... might that be part of a plan?

I agree that if he knew, he wouldn't just not tell him. John would perhaps get upset, perhaps even not want to listen to him, but he would try.

No. Sherlock has made a mistake...

see I am not convinced he would try. I think he is more mature than that and I think that he might now realise that there are some secrets that are better kept.

I found the wedding speech interesting, when he vowed to protect them or whatever it was. Strong words. I accept he is an unusual best man...but I've never been at a wedding where something like that was said!I think he knows something is coming. And I think whatever he knows about Mary, he has decided that it doesn't matter.

There was also another scene at the wedding, I can't remember the wording but on seeing Major Sholto Mary says something along the lines of "neither of us were the first" ie the first person John has "saved". Which is me is interesting because I wonder if John actually ALREADY knows whatever it is about Mary that she isn't saying, We know nothing about their courtship, how they met, etc. In the books, they were brought together by the case involving Jonathan Small and Sholto, but that is obviously not the case here.

Last edited by beekeeper (January 7, 2014 10:51 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

January 7, 2014 10:55 pm  #44


Re: Red Beard Clue

Mary Me wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

tonnaree wrote:


 
Totally agree.  If Sherlock thought for one minute that Mary was a danger he wouldn't hesitate to do something.  He's loyalties to John have no boundries. 
Just look at the little scene with Mary's Ex.  If he interfeared in something as small as that..........

Well, but it's possible for her to be both things at the same time... she could be in danger and at the same time be a danger to other people because of the people she herself is endangered by.
 

That of course. I was just trying to say that I don't believe for one second that she might have bad intentions. For me it rather seems like she wants to leave everything behind. Marry. Have a happy life. Forget about the past.

See I think that we are meant to think that, that Mary is being blackmailed by CAM. I think we are going to discover that the truth is a whole lot complex. For Mary to just be being blackmailed isn't terribly interesting, unless the thing she's being blackmailed over is very compelling or morally complex.

I really do like Mary actually but I like good drama and good writing even more, and I hope they are going to give us something interesting and thought provoking here.


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

January 7, 2014 11:11 pm  #45


Re: Red Beard Clue

silverblaze wrote:

On the poppet theory, it was another telegram, i think, so probably unrelated.

I also 'read' it as Poppet being the end of one telegram, and the CAM telegram is the next one. You can tell by Mary's reaction. She chuckles over being called poppet (and presumably only one person ever did so she knows who it's from) but then her face drops when she realises the telegram is from CAM. So I think they're two separate things.

As for Mark tweeting Redbeard; please recall that he is a stellar troll. He and Moffatt are brilliant at manipulating the perspectives of their audiences. It's possible it means nothing at all.

I personally think it probably does, but I acknowledge that Mark might just be jerking our chains.
 


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I dislike being outnumbered. It makes for too much stupid in the room

 

January 7, 2014 11:20 pm  #46


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

But really...swearing to protect those two...isn't that a little bit unusual, unless Sherlock is already aware of some danger?

I also think so. It has also struck me how many times he seemed to be referring to this, or to 'never let John down', 'we wouldn't do this to John, you and I' (excluding Mary...?), 'always be there for you', etc.
He seemed to be repeating that a lot, in different ways.

I am almost convinced this means something.

 

January 7, 2014 11:35 pm  #47


Re: Red Beard Clue

Mouse wrote:

 
I found the wedding speech interesting, when he vowed to protect them or whatever it was. Strong words. I accept he is an unusual best man...but I've never been at a wedding where something like that was said!I think he knows something is coming. And I think whatever he knows about Mary, he has decided that it doesn't matter.

There was also another scene at the wedding, I can't remember the wording but on seeing Major Sholto Mary says something along the lines of "neither of us were the first" ie the first person John has "saved". Which is me is interesting because I wonder if John actually ALREADY knows whatever it is about Mary that she isn't saying, We know nothing about their courtship, how they met, etc. In the books, they were brought together by the case involving Jonathan Small and Sholto, but that is obviously not the case here.

Sherlock said he'd "be there" for them...not sure what that means, though a lot of people are taking it to mean "protect." But he did say "be there."

I think what Mary meant by "neither of us were the first" is that she and Sherlock weren't the first people John really, really loved and really, really admired. Sholto was John's commanding officer and John loved and respected him; John sort of reacts to Sherlock like Sherlock is now his commanding officer (the way he did the about-face at Sherlock's grave at the end of TRF is the way a soldier takes leave of a CO). That's what made the scene on the bench so funny, when Sherlock commented that Sholto was John's "previous" CO and John said, "you mean my ex CO, I don't have a CO now" and Sherlock said something like "Of course, that's what I meant." He realizes that John's long stint in the military has trained John to submit to a chain of command, and John subconsciously assigns the role of CO to Sherlock, probably without even realizing it. So Sherlock dropped it quickly, realizing that if John did realize it he'd probably be annoyed and less willing to "take orders!"

Agree with this completely.

 

January 8, 2014 1:19 am  #48


Re: Red Beard Clue

Spot on, Mouse!


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

 

January 8, 2014 5:24 pm  #49


Re: Red Beard Clue

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I've never been able to trust Mycroft. I think that the meantion of Red Beard and telling him not to get involved with people was a warning so much as it was a threat. The novel version of CAM was a master manipulator, and I think that maybe Mary and Mycroft are under his manipulation, and because he really does care about his brother he's telling him not to get involved with the crime, because it could be more than he could handle. 
Red Beard could be some type of warning he's using to stop him from getting invovled. 


"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."
 

January 8, 2014 6:52 pm  #50


Re: Red Beard Clue

beekeeper wrote:

See I think that we are meant to think that, that Mary is being blackmailed by CAM. I think we are going to discover that the truth is a whole lot complex. For Mary to just be being blackmailed isn't terribly interesting, unless the thing she's being blackmailed over is very compelling or morally complex.

So the baby is NOT John's!!!!!!!!!!!  Clever blackmail that would be! No wonder he didn't know himself....

Last edited by Stayin Alive (January 8, 2014 6:53 pm)


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 8, 2014 7:07 pm  #51


Re: Red Beard Clue

The thought occurred to me, but he was absent for 2 years. She is within the first trimester (cant remember what he said), therefore we're talking about 1-2 months back when the "incident" happened. Hard to tell if he could read that far into the past. He has his limits you know. He knew John had a sibling but he assumed it was a brother based on the name. Likewise he knows Mary is pregnant, but he may be assuming its for John...


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 8, 2014 7:26 pm  #52


Re: Red Beard Clue

Yea good point 

Would've made for a hell of a story though!


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

The clue that everyone missed?

 

January 10, 2014 12:33 am  #53


Re: Red Beard Clue

I'm so suspicious of everything right now...

They've set Mary up really well in the first two episodes and made sure that us, as an audience, like her. We all genuinely like her. So....would they then make her into a baddie in the last episode? We all know that she has secrets, for sure, but I think that she'll still come across as more of the victim and that CAM is completely manipulating her...unless they want to turn the thing around and have us dislike her too...but then that would leave Sherlock looking really bad for not having intervened earlier if he knew something. And he saw all those words around her, he knows she's a liar and is hiding something. Does he know what? Does Mycroft?

I'm so intrigued to find out what Redbeard means. We know they use codewords all the time. Lazarus, Vatican Cameos etc. Redbeard is most probably a codeword or a reference to an incident/previous case that they gave the name Redbeard at the time. Like, Operation Redbeard.
 


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

 

January 10, 2014 1:00 pm  #54


Re: Red Beard Clue

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'm so suspicious of everything right now...

They've set Mary up really well in the first two episodes and made sure that us, as an audience, like her. We all genuinely like her. So....would they then make her into a baddie in the last episode? We all know that she has secrets, for sure, but I think that she'll still come across as more of the victim and that CAM is completely manipulating her...unless they want to turn the thing around and have us dislike her too...but then that would leave Sherlock looking really bad for not having intervened earlier if he knew something. And he saw all those words around her, he knows she's a liar and is hiding something. Does he know what? Does Mycroft?

I'm so intrigued to find out what Redbeard means. We know they use codewords all the time. Lazarus, Vatican Cameos etc. Redbeard is most probably a codeword or a reference to an incident/previous case that they gave the name Redbeard at the time. Like, Operation Redbeard.
 

 
Mary is a complex character, and I think she will divide the fan base after the next episode.  Some will hate her and some will sympathize with her.  I'm the latter, because I think they write her well enough that we can put ourselves in her place.  You will think I'm crazy for saying that at first, but trust me- it's true.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

January 10, 2014 4:59 pm  #55


Re: Red Beard Clue

So she's basically a good person who does or has done something really bad. Maybe just a mistake that CAM can use against her or whatever. 

The bad thingy: that you predict an audience response suggests to me that it has something to do with either Sherlock or John. 

 

January 10, 2014 5:08 pm  #56


Re: Red Beard Clue

To me Redbeard refers back to Sherlock wanting to be a pirate when he was little. Also, perhaps, an allusion to the Red-Headed League.

(As she drags this thread back, kicking and screaming, on task.)



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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

January 10, 2014 7:33 pm  #57


Re: Red Beard Clue

I think most of us agree, more or less, on the general meaning.
...
So it's probably gonna be something else. 

 

January 10, 2014 7:53 pm  #58


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Arrrrrrgh...I just realized something...I think they successfully mislead us....Think about it:

"Do you remember Red Beard?"
"I am not a child anymore, Mycroft!"

NOTHING in this says that Red Beard is in ANY way connected to Sherlock's childhood. Red Beard can simply be the name of one of Mycroft secret operation (involving CAM?), and Sherlock feels annoyed that Mycroft feels the need to remind him of the fact that said operation is going on. "Don't patronize me, I am not a child anymore!"


Thank you, verry much.
I think people may be reading TOO MUCH into it.  .

Last edited by VaticanCameoBrooch (January 10, 2014 7:53 pm)

 

January 10, 2014 8:00 pm  #59


Re: Red Beard Clue

VaticanCameoBrooch wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Arrrrrrgh...I just realized something...I think they successfully mislead us....Think about it:

"Do you remember Red Beard?"
"I am not a child anymore, Mycroft!"

NOTHING in this says that Red Beard is in ANY way connected to Sherlock's childhood. Red Beard can simply be the name of one of Mycroft secret operation (involving CAM?), and Sherlock feels annoyed that Mycroft feels the need to remind him of the fact that said operation is going on. "Don't patronize me, I am not a child anymore!"

Thank you, verry much.
I think people may be reading TOO MUCH into it.

True.  Actually, I would go with the simplest answer in this case.  Very, very simple.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 10, 2014 8:01 pm)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

January 10, 2014 8:38 pm  #60


Re: Red Beard Clue

But your solution is more complex than mine!!! I find a allusion to a childhood memory a lot simpler than a secret service operation with a code name. But I'm weird that way. 
 

 

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