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    January 6, 2014 8:15 pm  #21

    SusiGo
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    Mattlocked wrote:

    Now when I listen again closely to the things Mrs. Hudson tells Sherlock at the beginning of the episode I'm quite sure I know why he's so rude to her then..... He's afraid she might tell the truth and doesn't want to listen.

    Exactly. Because immediately after she has left there is the scene with the empty chair. 

    ------------------------------
    "To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

    "It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

    “Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



     
     

    January 6, 2014 8:19 pm  #22

    SilverMoonDragonB
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    SusiGo wrote:

    Mattlocked wrote:

    Now when I listen again closely to the things Mrs. Hudson tells Sherlock at the beginning of the episode I'm quite sure I know why he's so rude to her then..... He's afraid she might tell the truth and doesn't want to listen.

    Exactly. Because immediately after she has left there is the scene with the empty chair. 

    *nods* 
     

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    January 6, 2014 8:24 pm  #23

    besleybean
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I nearly burst into tears when Sherlock looked at the chair!

    Last edited by besleybean (January 6, 2014 8:24 pm)

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    January 6, 2014 8:27 pm  #24

    LucidPlazma
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I think,what we saw in these two episodes,is what was going on in Sherlock's mind the entire time since him and John become friends.He just never felt the need to express his feelings because he never thought he would be separated from him and other people he carred about.But then,of course,everything changed after he come home after TRF.I have a feeling that new Sherlock i kinda like new Doctor.We just need more time to get used to it.After all it has been only a week since TEH.
    And we should really brace ourselves because an impact is coming and it's gonna be bad....it's gonna be Moffat bad.

     

    January 6, 2014 10:18 pm  #25

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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I think the inner Mycroft thing is to do with him being away. He's probably still getting used to having John back and maybe there was a part of him that didn't want to consult John or bother him on his wedding day. He wanted to sort it out as quickly as possible to allow John to get on with his day. It was only when Mycroft began to annoy him and, in his mind, hold him back, that he turned to his best friend as always.

    On one level I think it's really great and touching that Sherlock is opening up to his emotions more. He was actually a pretty nice person in this episode and you can easily see why you'd want him as a friend. He's so protective over both John and Mary to the point of interrogating their friends, ha. On the other hand, I do seriously worry that this new aspect of his personality will leave him open to get seriously emotionally damaged and hurt during this last episode. He's going to be totally crushed and devastated if something happens to John or Mary (and of course, it will), especially after making his last vow to always protect them. He will feel responsible.

    I don't think he's over whatever happened during the hiatus. He's got some dark memories and experiences there which he's repressing and trying to cover through more joking around and tom foolery than ever before. But when something bad happens to his friends it's all going to come out and yeah...I'm kind of really scared for him.

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    January 6, 2014 10:27 pm  #26

    SilverMoonDragonB
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    Sherlock Holmes wrote:

    I think the inner Mycroft thing is to do with him being away. He's probably still getting used to having John back and maybe there was a part of him that didn't want to consult John or bother him on his wedding day. He wanted to sort it out as quickly as possible to allow John to get on with his day. It was only when Mycroft began to annoy him and, in his mind, hold him back, that he turned to his best friend as always.

    On one level I think it's really great and touching that Sherlock is opening up to his emotions more. He was actually a pretty nice person in this episode and you can easily see why you'd want him as a friend. He's so protective over both John and Mary to the point of interrogating their friends, ha. On the other hand, I do seriously worry that this new aspect of his personality will leave him open to get seriously emotionally damaged and hurt during this last episode. He's going to be totally crushed and devastated if something happens to John or Mary (and of course, it will), especially after making his last vow to always protect them. He will feel responsible.

    I don't think he's over whatever happened during the hiatus. He's got some dark memories and experiences there which he's repressing and trying to cover through more joking around and tom foolery than ever before. But when something bad happens to his friends it's all going to come out and yeah...I'm kind of really scared for him.

    Yes, me too...In some ways, I'm more scared for him than for John.  That's one thing that has been going through my head ever since seeing this more emotionally aware Sherlock...he's going to be more hurt than he ever was before, and on many levels he feels like a truly sensitive soul because of his lack of experience with emotions...If something truly devastating were to happen, now that we're seeing him like this, I don't know how he would react... 
     

    Last edited by SilverMoonDragonB (January 6, 2014 10:28 pm)

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    January 6, 2014 10:45 pm  #27

    QuiteExtraordinary
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    My personal opinion on this is that during his absence after TRF Sherlock realised he was lonely and he missed his friends. We know little about the time before PINK, but obviously he wasn't very stable before he met John. It seems that he had more contact with Mycroft back then.
    Now that Sherlock is back in London, he wants everything to be like it was before TRF, because that was the best situation from his point of view. But things have changed. Everyone has boyfriends/girlfriends, which is a thing that Sherlock isn't really interested in. And as both Mrs Hudson and Mycroft keep reminding him, when people are in romantic relationships, it can happen that they leave their old friends behind. Especially after getting married, especially when they have a family of their own. That bothers Sherlock, and that's why he's very stressed.

    Another thing - there's this repeatedly occurring allusion (I don't know if it was mentioned elsewhere, couldn't read all the threads that quickly). "Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss. It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue. (from Wikipedia). I think this points to the existence of a clue that Sherlock has overlooked because of his emotional stress or whatever, probably something to do with Mary. As the trailer to HLV also said Sherlock makes a big mistake.

    Last edited by QuiteExtraordinary (January 6, 2014 10:47 pm)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

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    January 6, 2014 10:49 pm  #28

    kittykat
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    Poor Sherlock 

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

    Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


     

    January 6, 2014 11:02 pm  #29

    Ozma
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

    Another thing - there's this repeatedly occurring allusion (I don't know if it was mentioned elsewhere, couldn't read all the threads that quickly). "Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss. It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue. (from Wikipedia). I think this points to the existence of a clue that Sherlock has overlooked because of his emotional stress or whatever, probably something to do with Mary. As the trailer to HLV also said Sherlock makes a big mistake.

    Very good point. Although the elephant in the room could be another nod to the ongoing joke about Sherlock and John being in love with each other I mean, they really, really love each other....

    But err, I digress...! I agree that it could be a clue, and something to do with Mary.

     

    January 7, 2014 12:39 am  #30

    RavenMorganLeigh
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I'm a bit worried for Sherlock too-- he seems...as if his psyche is fragmented. He may have  suffered more damage, both physically and emotionally during the Hiatus than we know of. 

    But of course, this clinches it for me-- he's not a sociopath, or a psychopath-- one can't selectivley be a sociopath, or a "just a little" sociopathic. 

    Emotionally shut down-- I think that's closer to it, I think it's a defense mechanism that, somehow, he's lost.

    Poor Sherlock! 

     

    January 7, 2014 12:45 am  #31

    LoveIsAViciousMotivator
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    SilverMoonDragonB wrote:

    Yes, me too...In some ways, I'm more scared for him than for John.  That's one thing that has been going through my head ever since seeing this more emotionally aware Sherlock...he's going to be more hurt than he ever was before, and on many levels he feels like a truly sensitive soul because of his lack of experience with emotions...If something truly devastating were to happen, now that we're seeing him like this, I don't know how he would react...  

    Very destructive, I fear. My heart breaks thinking about it. 

    QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

    Another thing - there's this repeatedly occurring allusion (I don't know if it was mentioned elsewhere, couldn't read all the threads that quickly). "Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss. It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue. (from Wikipedia). I think this points to the existence of a clue that Sherlock has overlooked because of his emotional stress or whatever, probably something to do with Mary. As the trailer to HLV also said Sherlock makes a big mistake.

    From the way Sherlock is acting, I agree. I believe Sherlock missed something in his deductions towards Mary. He may have seen it yet failed to acknowledge or really think it through. I do believe this mistake may cause him dearly.
     

    Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (January 7, 2014 12:46 am)

     

    January 7, 2014 6:10 am  #32

    SolarSystem
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    "Alone is what protects me" - maybe Sherlock was right after all and we will see in HLV that having friends is not a protection but puts you in danger, makes you vulnerable... and might even break you.

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    January 7, 2014 6:43 am  #33

    besleybean
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I'm more worried if it involves makimg a choice, or letting somebody down...

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    January 7, 2014 11:56 am  #34

    Kerkerian
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I really don't want Mary to turn evil and I don't think she will, but did anyone else notice that she had horns in the scene where John and Sherlock go out for a case? She gives them both the thumbs up and it looks like the horns of the bull (the one with the headphones) are coming directly out of her head.

    Might be coincidence, but it's Sherlock, after all...

    Speaking of which- did you notice that Sherlock spelled Madonna with two D, as in MAD DONNA?

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    January 7, 2014 1:53 pm  #35

    silverblaze
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

     Emotionally shut down-- I think that's closer to it, I think it's a defense mechanism that, somehow, he's lost. 

    That's how I like to imagine him. And I want to ignore any characterisation that contradicts that. 

     

    January 7, 2014 1:58 pm  #36

    Criosdan
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    silverblaze wrote:

    RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

     Emotionally shut down-- I think that's closer to it, I think it's a defense mechanism that, somehow, he's lost. 

    That's how I like to imagine him. And I want to ignore any characterisation that contradicts that. 

    I agree totally.

    -----------------------------
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    January 7, 2014 2:08 pm  #37

    SusiGo
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    Kerkerian wrote:

    I really don't want Mary to turn evil and I don't think she will, but did anyone else notice that she had horns in the scene where John and Sherlock go out for a case? She gives them both the thumbs up and it looks like the horns of the bull (the one with the headphones) are coming directly out of her head.

    Might be coincidence, but it's Sherlock, after all...

    Speaking of which- did you notice that Sherlock spelled Madonna with two D, as in MAD DONNA?

    Yesss, I had the same thought about the horns. I sometimes think she is too nice and understanding. Just saying. 

    No, I didn't, but this is really funny. (OT: And I had to think of the story Benedict told recently. He met Madonna and she asked if he was the guy with the strange and name and he answered "Yes, Madonna.")

    ------------------------------
    "To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

    "It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

    “Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



     
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    January 7, 2014 2:27 pm  #38

    Stayin Alive
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    SilverMoonDragonB wrote:

    In some ways, it feels like they're indeed setting us up for something terrible to happen...maybe Sherlock's newfound connection with his emotions will somehow cause something to happen, either he'll make a mistake or do something emotional that'll result in something. 
     

    That makes sense considering CAM in HLV trailer, can be heard saying that "Sherlock has made one enormous mistake that will destroy the lives of everyone he loves and everything that he holds dear!"

    I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

    The clue that everyone missed?

     

    January 7, 2014 2:42 pm  #39

    Stayin Alive
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    I must say that after building up characters for 2 seasons and then just changing them DRAMATICALLY overnight is not what I expected. I'm quite surprised at how Sherlock's and Mycroft's characters have been radically transformed and softened. Even Mrs. Hudson has evolved considerably! John and Lestrade are still good 'ol John and Lestrade lol!

    Yes, yes, yes! I know they're developing the characters and making them more "human" blah blah blah , but don't you guys think that this is a bit TOO fast a transformation?

    If this drastic shift in tone is actually to mess with us and set us up for a sinister and dark last episode, then "Bravo!" to those mischievous little buggers called Moffat and Gatis! You nearly had me on that one... lol!

    Think about it. Everyone is distracted by the comedy and change of tone, but they did promise a more gripping and intense ending than season 2. So I definitely can't wait for HLV...

    I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! 

    The clue that everyone missed?

     

    January 7, 2014 2:47 pm  #40

    SusiGo
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    Re: The "new" Sherlock - emotions and all that

    Swanpride wrote:

    I'm sure if Mary were not honestly in love with John, Sherlock would have deduced it immediatly.

    I don't think that Sherlock has so much more emotions now, it's just that he doesn't repress them as much. He was always very possessive of John, after all.
     
    And you know, after his little speech, I see the "I don't have friends" line from HoB differently...perhaps it was less about Sherlock not feeling any friendship and more about him not allowing any friendship and not believing that anyone could truly be his friend.

    I agree with you. For me the line "I've distanced myself from feelings" from HoB was always a clue to his dealings with emotions. He can feel them but usually chooses not to and suppresses them concentrating on his work and pure intellect instead. This is what has changed now. He allows himself these feelings and admits them openly, at least now and then. 

    And "I don't have friends" can mean two things: not having friends because he does not want/need them or because he thinks nobody wants to have him as a friend. The latter assumption being supported by Sherlock's surprise and shock when John tells him he is his best friend. 

    ------------------------------
    "To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

    "It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

    “Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



     
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