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February 5, 2014 3:30 pm  #21


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Dr. Seem wrote:

Finally, I perceived his rant at the Christmas party not as an unconscious decision to show off his skills, but prompted by jealousy from Molly getting all the attention. Sherlock is, we know, a drama queen, and he wanted to show off to his friends his insightful deductions about Molly . . . somewhat making it about himself, rather than Molly . . . and it turned out to be really about him.

Thanks for the space to rant. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

I don't think what set him off on the rant about Molly was about her getting all the attention and Sherlock being a drama queen and wanting the attention. It was actually quite the opposite. His "going off"  occurred because she opened her mouth at the party and spilled to everyone that Sherlock had been grousing/complaining at the lab that John was going away to his sister's for Christmas.  You can see the flash of displeasure from Sherlock when she announces this. This was, for him,  a personal revelation not made for public consumption. It reveals something about Sherlock he did not want known and so he starts the rant in retaliation in order to reveal her personal information just like she did to him.
What I find most interesting about the rant is that it is 'spot on' but he has no clue he's the 'love interest'.  Such an observant genius in all other ways but rubbish with those social cues. 


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February 11, 2014 10:15 pm  #22


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Dr. Seem wrote:

So, if I'm following correctly, when Sherlock needs a safe, restful place to decompress, protection or escape from the world, he goes to . . . Molly's bedroom. Keep in mind The Woman needed a bolt-hole, and went to Sherlock's bedroom, and now we know Sherlock uses Molly's bedroom for the same reason. If 10th grade Geometry serves, that may well create a "lurrrvve triangle". Congrats, Moffis! Pythagoras would be proud.

On another note, perhaps I'm thinking about this too hard . . . perhaps Sherlock lives the mantra "caring is not an advantage" as a means of solving crimes, as well as a means of protecting people, including himself. Is it possible he hides his feelings for Molly in order that no one knows what she means to him, and she is thereby "safe", as is he?

Finally, I perceived his rant at the Christmas party not as an unconscious decision to show off his skills, but prompted by jealousy from Molly getting all the attention. Sherlock is, we know, a drama queen, and he wanted to show off to his friends his insightful deductions about Molly . . . somewhat making it about himself, rather than Molly . . . and it turned out to be really about him.

Thanks for the space to rant. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Well, Sherlock covering up his feelings for Molly (whether they are love or friendship) did work to his advantage in Reichenbach. Whereas John gets targeted by villains, including Moriarty and CAM, because he is publicly known to be Sherlock's best friend (or assumed to be more). 

Also, I think John's realization that Molly and others were in on Reichenbach was a big part of what hurt him so much, he was feeling like, "Sherlock trusted other people more than me."

 

February 12, 2014 6:39 am  #23


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Other people aren't flapping drama queens like John!
Oh and I don't think Sherlock hid his affection for Molly at all.
Just Moriarty failed to pick up on it.


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February 14, 2014 5:55 pm  #24


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Oh sorry, wrong thread ;)

Last edited by sherlocked4ever (February 14, 2014 6:08 pm)


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April 27, 2015 7:38 pm  #25


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

besleybean wrote:

....
But she can't help being in love with him and I think she always will be.
...

I think Molly fell out of love when she spent the day working with Sherlock. Otherwise, why would she have declined the dinner she originally suggested herself?

(Food is my personal "minimum wage" - I see getting fed after helping out for a day as my due, not the prelude to anything else. I'd only refuse a free meal if I seriously didn't want to spend another half-hour with the person... which might happen with a real-life Sherlock...)

 

April 27, 2015 7:48 pm  #26


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Kittyhawk wrote:

I think Molly fell out of love when she spent the day working with Sherlock. Otherwise, why would she have declined the dinner she originally suggested herself?

(Food is my personal "minimum wage" - I see getting fed after helping out for a day as my due, not the prelude to anything else. I'd only refuse a free meal if I seriously didn't want to spend another half-hour with the person... which might happen with a real-life Sherlock...)

I don't think she did. Her sad comment "Maybe they are just my type" seem to suggest otherwise. (Not to mention Tom...).


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April 27, 2015 8:30 pm  #27


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Molly saw that she is just a substitute for John and comprehended, that Sherlock just wanted to thank her with recruiting her, so she wisely and in a friendly manner called the thing off to not bind Sherlock with gratitude anymore... but her behaviour in entire S3 indicates she can hardly be considered over Sherlock. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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April 27, 2015 8:51 pm  #28


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

I think her behavior in giving him a hard time--in a friendly way!--about asking her about drinking showed she was moving toward a more buddy sort of feeling for Sherlock, and I think that in breaking up with Tom (and giving Sherlock a good what-for for taking drugs)  she showed she was continuing in that direction--that she still loves Sherlock, but is redefining her feelings as not being "in love" with him. Which is a good thing. 

(And her place in Sherlock's I've-just-been-shot mind palace shows how much he trusts and respects her, which is also a good thing.)


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April 27, 2015 9:15 pm  #29


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

That´s a good theory also.... still, when Molly poked Tom with a fork in TSOT right after he insulted Sherlock, it was obvious she still felt deeply for him.... that´s also why she possibly got rid of Tom. He was an insuficient substitute for a real thing. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


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April 27, 2015 11:58 pm  #30


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Welllll...I don't think Molly would ever poke at someone she was still pining after the way she poked at Sherlock about the drinking thing, or that she would ever slap someone she was in love with, even if they needed it. With Sherlock, she's learning to stand up to him, and he clearly respects that (in his sub- or un-conscious!), and hopefully that will teach her to stand up to someone she's in love with.


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April 28, 2015 7:09 am  #31


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

She slapped him exactly because she feels strongly for him, IMHO. It was a hightened emotional reaction at seeing him in self-harming mode. I doubt her reaction would be that strong if there weren´t equally strong feelings involved behind it.... but yes, she is now able to stand up to the people she´s interested in.


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April 29, 2015 12:21 pm  #32


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

So why did she refuse dinner with Sherlock?

 

April 29, 2015 12:29 pm  #33


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Kittyhawk wrote:

So why did she refuse dinner with Sherlock?

I think it would've been too painful for her. 


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April 30, 2015 11:15 am  #34


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Then why did she suggest dinner in the first place?

 

April 30, 2015 11:37 am  #35


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Why do people in love act self-contradictorily? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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April 30, 2015 11:46 am  #36


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

True. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


@Kittyhawk: When exactly does she refuse dinner? I think it is Sherlock who walks away after talking about her engagement. And when she hesitates before we do not know for sure if it is about having chips or working with him again. 


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April 30, 2015 12:51 pm  #37


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

SusiGo wrote:

True. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


@Kittyhawk: When exactly does she refuse dinner? I think it is Sherlock who walks away after talking about her engagement. And when she hesitates before we do not know for sure if it is about having chips or working with him again. 

 
I think you're right Susi.  Molly doesn't ever actually say no to dinner, Sherlock just starts rattling off asumptions after spotting her engagement ring.


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May 1, 2015 12:28 pm  #38


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Yes, you are both right, Molly never says no. But she doesn't say yes either, not at the beginning of the scene ("Fancy some chips?" "O yes, I'm starving!"), not further on: "I had a lovely day. And yes, fish & chips would be nice..." would have been an option. Or as a last resort calling after Sherlock when he walks away...

 

May 1, 2015 3:32 pm  #39


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

My understanding was that after Sherlock said "But you can't do this again, can you?", they sort of both knew this was the goodbye for them working together like this (including that dinner). 


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May 10, 2015 9:32 am  #40


Re: Sherlock and Molly in The Empty Hearse

Sherlock and Molly’s relationship is one of the more fascinating to me. Personally I also don’t see Molly and Sherlock as a potential couple or even close friends actually. They don’t quite know how to talk to each other. There’s always this undercurrent of discomfort between them. Molly is hopelessly and pointlessly in love with Sherlock, and he doesn’t return the feeling. On top of that Sherlock even deduced how she feels about him. She is the opposite of him in pretty much every way. He doesn’t know how to relate to any element of her. Until suddenly he does. He constantly rejects her, and becomes awkwardly aware that he’s causing her so much pain and how inexcusable that is (ASiB). When John Marries Mary and thus rejects him as a romantic partner, Sherlock finally knows what it feels like to be rejected by someone you love completely and hopelessly. 

The way I see it Sherlock calling Molly to help him (TEH) with his cases was more about himself. John has told him to f*** off. He’s ravaged by that rejection, just like Molly’s always is. So it’s interesting that he chooses to include Molly in his life in a new way just then. He suddenly understands what it would mean to get the attention of someone he loves, and he’s finally behaving with some level of empathy towards Molly. For once, they’re in the same boat.

Although I think this doesn’t improve the possibility of a romance or even a cherished friendship between them. And it’s mainly because of Sherlock’s nature. The problem is that Molly and Sherlock do have potential (as friends), because she has the temperament to tolerate him and the job description to potentially interest him (plus at least some intelligence), but. It’s always been too much about feelings. Ironically, in some ways that’s even the issue with Irene: even Irene attacked Sherlock with feelings, head-on. Not that Molly meant to 'attack’, but she couldn’t exactly hide them, which meant that Sherlock was never going to relax. It’s funny, because Sherlock did the same sort of backpedaling avoidance routine when John was blatantly propositioning him in ASiP, except John (besides being, you know, gender-compatible and possessing the all-important shared interest in murder and Sherlock’s brilliance), well, John could sublimate his feelings. John’s ability to simply hide his feelings away for later use is– I think– one of the things that allowed Sherlock to relax around him. Being in your face with Sherlock doesn’t seem to… work very well, as an engagement strategy. Unfortunately, once you’re in, being in your face is all that *would* work, because otherwise he’d be oblivious for quite a while.

So in a nutshell, Sherlock isn’t going to bond with anyone when there are feelings flying around. He might be appreciative, kinder, or more tolerant, but it doesn’t work in a casual or work-related interaction, where he’d need to be brusque and focused. Both John and Sherlock kind of need some kind of shorthand, a way to skip past all the sensitive bits and get to the 'fun part’, which is what helps make their partnership work for both of them. Otherwise they’re both just… awkward. In other words, it’s not really Molly’s fault or anything. Well, there’s a reason Sherlock hasn’t had friends before John.

Last edited by tykobrian (May 10, 2015 9:36 am)


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