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January 26, 2014 11:01 am  #41


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

It took me 3x to get with it at all and the other night I saw it for the 4th time and am now totally up to speed with it!


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January 26, 2014 8:03 pm  #42


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

On re-watching the ending scene with the conversation with Anderson and the third theory, I was struck by the SHEER NUMBER of people who were in cahoots with Sherlock, namely EVERYONE who was ANYWHERE in the vicinity at the time, EXCEPT John.

Now, his reasons for not telling John everything he's planning do make some sense: villians WILL get to Sherlock Holmes by using / kidnapping / trying to hurt "his Watson." It has happened in every Holmes-verse.

And in other verses where he has concealed his schemes from Watson, his excuse is usually, "You're such an honest, decent person. You couldn't manage to be devious enough to deceive these villains."

But I'm not sure I believe that about this John (Freeman.)

And, after realizing how many people were in it, I kind of felt like, "How could having all those people in on it NOT be dangerous? How did you know Moriarty wouldn't buy off / blackmail / otherwise get to one of them?"

And, "If you felt safe to let all those people in on it, would it have killed you, Sherlock (pardon the expression) to let in one MORE person, namely, the person who really CARED about you?"

It felt like John was the intended audience, the one intended to be deceived.

Now, the writers of this show are perfectly capable of revealing later that either

Moriarty did know the whole time

at least one of those in on the planned leaked it to someone

or even

John knew all along and staged the scene in the restaurant, either for reasons of his own or per someone's instructions (probably Mycroft.)

 

January 26, 2014 8:26 pm  #43


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I doubt the latter very much.


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January 27, 2014 12:30 am  #44


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Whisky wrote:

Sanaz wrote:

This episode kinda annoys me because it seems they've destroyed everything they'd built in season 2 and especially in TRF.
 

After second watching, I can see clearer now where Sherlock is acting and pretending, and where he is serious. But still, it's not quite right.
I don't know how to express this... it's like Sherlock is off-balance (that was to be expected) but in the wrong way. I mean, he should be off-balance and strange and different, it's been 2 years. But somehow, his change in character... it could feel right because so much is wrong, but it doesn't.

I'm struggling. Something is definitely lost, which was there in series 1 and 2.
this episode is good, i like it. but it's not brilliant altogether, imo. makes me sad. it could have been.
god, that all sounds negative. it's not that I don't like it. I'm trying hard to befriend the new episode, but I never expected I would have to put effort in it

I like the first part of the episode mostly, and the last parts. somewhere in the middle, I started skipping scenes, while only watching it for the second time... :/

I would love a third episode that puts everything right, a big blast. But I don't dare to believe it now. Absolutely no expectations this time, don't want to hope for too much, again.

Well I read the posts this thread and stopped at yours because what you say about Sherlock being off-balanced seems to hit a note with me. I liked this episode, especially the big "not dead" reveal scenes with the other characters but I do worry that Sherlock in this particular episode wasn't a little too not-Sherlock. Certainly, the emotional level was high--coming back from the dead would be. Yet I don't want to see the character of Sherlock watered down to a regular guy. That's not why I've been a fan of Sherlock Holmes in book or film or television. It's his aloofness/uniqueness that is cool and interesting and sexy (the kind your mother warned you about) and I'd hate to see him become ordinary by means of being a little too much changed from the high-functioning sociopath. 

Having said all that, love the show. I watch to be entertained but yes, in afterthoughts, after watching this one 3 times, these doubts come to you. Looking forward to the wedding episode tonight.

 

January 27, 2014 6:41 am  #45


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

You'll love it!


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February 5, 2014 7:57 am  #46


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Random second reactions: 

 - I liked it a lot better this time, the sensory overload was not as bad as the first time I watched it. Phew, I really would have hated not to love the new series!

 - The writers did a great job squeezing everything they wanted and needed to show into a mere 1,5 hours - a taste of how Sherlock´s life has been the last two years, him settling back in and adjusting to new circumstances, everyone´s reactions to him not being dead, character development, his reconciliation with John, several nods to fandom, explaining (or not explaining) TRF, introducing the next super-villain, introducing Magnussen (), not to forget the actual new case..no wonder it seemed a bit crammed at first viewing.

 - I am reeeally mad at Mycroft for making Sherlock feel like an idiot as a kid. And for watching him being beaten up. And for referring to his mission as 'holidays'. And for referring to people as goldfish. Baaad Mycroft! But Sherlock being the slow and sociable one in a relationship is really something new .

 - Sherlock being off-balance did not worry me as much as it did before, because I was able to pick up a lot more details/facial expressions this time and it all became more credible to me. For example when John comes to Baker Street after the bonfire I was really troubled by Sherlock´s face the first time I saw it, thinking "this is so not him, why is he making that face?" Now I think he is just so relieved to see John sitting there, alive, unharmed and not mad at him that he is overrun by emotions for a short moment . Then he gets a grip and with John´s usual remarks and questions he gets back into the flow of it and solves the case, BAM. If that is not what they intended to show then I am still quite happy with my interpretation, and if that really is what they were going for then I think it is sheer brilliance.

- Not taking the plot and little details too serious helps a lot. Thanks Sherlock, I got your "everyone is a critic"-line..

- He resembles his father very much 

 

February 5, 2014 9:36 pm  #47


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Well, the second time around I found that the humour, especially in the reunion scene had worn a little thin. I started to yearn for something a little more serious, especially as Martin Freeman was brilliant when he was allowed to be anguished and angry. 

I’m not convinced that the third probably ‘real’ explanation for Sherlock’s survival actually holds  up either. Yeah, everyone’s a critic but I can take it with a pinch of salt.  Nor did I mind the rather flimsy terrorist plot just being a peg to hang the action on and I’ll even overlook the off switch on the bomb.  Both times around I loved all the dark, dank underground tunnels (like MG I’m an underground buff)  and once Sherlock and John started to work together without any distractions it was just like old times.  I also liked the ‘do you forgive me’ bit in the underground carriage. Yes, it was manipulative, but Sherlock felt more like Sherlock in this scene than he did in the rest of the episode.

In my opinion this is the best of the third season episodes , but I still don’t think that it’ll stand up to repeated viewing so I won’t be watching it too often.

Last edited by Aytoun (February 5, 2014 9:37 pm)

 

February 5, 2014 9:44 pm  #48


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

It's my least favourite of the three, but I like it better after each viewing.


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February 5, 2014 9:57 pm  #49


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Same with me. I think from a cinematic point of view it is inferior to TSoT and especially HLV but it has some very good scenes. And it was a difficult task to treat the return, the explanation (or non-explanation) of the fall and to introduce Mary into the cast. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

February 6, 2014 6:39 am  #50


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

They had a mammoth task: Reunion, Explanation, Introduction and write a crime story...
I think that's why we all felt bombarded.
But I'm happy with it now.


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February 6, 2014 6:57 am  #51


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

besleybean wrote:

They had a mammoth task: Reunion, Explanation, Introduction and write a crime story...
I think that's why we all felt bombarded.
But I'm happy with it now.

Exactly. Expectations were incredibly high after the two year hiatus (understandably) and they really had a lot on their hands. The focus of this episode clearly is on reuniting John and Sherlock and also on bringing Sherlock back together with all of the other Baker Street regulars. I think they've done a good job.
 


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"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

February 6, 2014 10:59 pm  #52


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

The first time I watched it was a bit of a sensory overload and lots of 'oh my god it's here!' so I was able to breath a bit and notice other things watching the second time.


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February 8, 2014 12:01 am  #53


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I watched it for probably the fifth or sixth time today. It's the series 3 ep I've rewatched most often. And today was fun, because I watched it with a good friend who saw it for the very first time. Always nice to gauge someone's initial reactions to certain things and reveals, especially if the person is invested and interested in the show.

It'll be fun to watch TSoT and HLV with her tomorrow. Can't wait!


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February 21, 2014 12:40 pm  #54


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

What do you think about the title of this episode after having seen it?
There is no actual empty hearse for us to see. If I remember correctly there was once a hearse in setlock near Barts, wasn't it. All fake?!
The episode was apparently named after Anderson's little fanclub. He founded it because he wanted to find like-minded people for the purpose of discussions about how he did it.
So it is fair to say that we are in "the empty hearse" here, aren't we.
Isn't it a bit odd that they named the episode after a fanclub that actually appears for just a few seconds?

 

February 21, 2014 5:20 pm  #55


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Quirky maybe, I don't find it particularly odd.


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February 21, 2014 8:33 pm  #56


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I like the episode better the more I see it. I was quite critical initially.


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February 21, 2014 8:56 pm  #57


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I think I was just puzzled, initially.
But yes, improves with repeated viewings.


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February 22, 2014 4:39 pm  #58


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I have a question about the scene in John's office when Mary comes in wearing her coat ready to go.
Can anybody tell me what this scene is about? I find it difficult to understand and when I looked at the transcript by Ariane Devere I must say that I still don't know what it means and why it is there.
Mary asks: Are you sure?
And she says something that sounds like and is transcribed like: I'm late for Cath.
What is that supposed to mean?
 

 

February 22, 2014 5:08 pm  #59


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

I think she knows John wants to visit Sherlock after work ("Are you sure?") and she herself wants to meet a friend called Cath.


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February 22, 2014 5:24 pm  #60


Re: Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions

Ok, thank you. It is just to tell us that John changed his mind after the scene in the flat when he said that he won't see Sherlock after work? And Mary is there later accidentally in spite her plan to see Cath or after she saw Cath?
Do we need this scene at all? Why is it that they explane things that don't need an explanation and don't explane what obviously needs one?

 

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