John never called him jealous. But Sherlock might be jealous of Mary because now she is the most important person in John's life. Or Sherlock might think other people might think him jealous. It is a bit unclear to me. 

Well, John got over it.

I need to watch it again but after seeing the tube/bomb scene twice, I don't have nearly the negative reaction as I did at first.  I think people's comments that Sherlock's and John's reactions stem, at least partially, from them being men and, as they said, they have a hard time with emotions.  I think Sherlcok's over-the-top behavior was because he just couldn't outright and honestly express his what he really felt--he doesn't know how and even if he did, that's not who he is.  But he needed John's acceptance and forgiveness so, whether consciously or unconsciously, I don't know, he hit on this scheme to fool John--once more--and manipulate him into doing what he, Sherlock, wanted.  And it worked.

Going through who knows what during the two years he was away...and even if the torture scene was just one incident, given what happened there...Sherlock was bound to be changed.  Having to keep himself hidden and pretend to be someone else--or many people--for such a long time would, I think, play havoc with even the sanest and most grounded of people.  Which I don't think Sherlock really is.  (By which I mean, he's not the most emotionally stable person around.)

Throughout this episode, Sherlock's predictions as to how John would react were always wrong.  As John said, he'd moved on.  Sherlock would have no way of knowing how John had changed--though I'm kind of surprised he didn't have a gazillion possibilities all calculated out.

I think the whole episode is about Sherlock and John finding their footing with each other again and realizing, despite everything that's happenend, that they belong together.  They went, literally, through fire, and now they are stronger and can face the world again together.  Which we'll see them doing in the next two episodes!

KeepersPrice wrote:

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

I think the whole episode is about Sherlock and John finding their footing with each other again and realizing, despite everything that's happenend, that they belong together.  They went, literally, through fire, and now they are stronger and can face the world again together.  Which we'll see them doing in the next two episodes!

Perfect, Sherli. "Literally through fire". I like that! Describes it well!

And I agree with you about the whole episode being about them finding each other again. Seeing it from start to finish really brought that home to me. Scattered throughout there were some poignant moments of Sherlock walking away by himself - once after John and Mary get in the taxi and once when he walks away from Molly through the falling snow. He just looked so damn 'alone' without John at his side. By the end, when Sherlock goes out to face the reporters, John follows right after and takes his place beside him -right where he belongs. Lovely!
 

Wonderful! I wholeheartedly agree 
 

KeepersPrice wrote:

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

I think the whole episode is about Sherlock and John finding their footing with each other again and realizing, despite everything that's happenend, that they belong together.  They went, literally, through fire, and now they are stronger and can face the world again together.  Which we'll see them doing in the next two episodes!

Perfect, Sherli. "Literally through fire". I like that! Describes it well!

And I agree with you about the whole episode being about them finding each other again. Seeing it from start to finish really brought that home to me. Scattered throughout there were some poignant moments of Sherlock walking away by himself - once after John and Mary get in the taxi and once when he walks away from Molly through the falling snow. He just looked so damn 'alone' without John at his side. By the end, when Sherlock goes out to face the reporters, John follows right after and takes his place beside him -right where he belongs. Lovely!
 

Damn.  I'm about to cry again just reading this thread.  

I think it will be the 3 Musketeers, for a while, at least.

Sobbbing here, too!

I keep thinking that a lot of us have a very rigid idea of Sherlock's character--  and honestly, I find it hard to beleive that he could go through all he went through trying to take down Moriarty's "web", and come through unscathed, physically or mentally. 

It's also interesting to me that, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade welcome him back with open arms, Mycroft does as well, in his Holmesian way-- but John is absolutley AWFUL to Sherlock, even after he saves John's life...again. 

Everyone has a shock, yet John is the only one who refused to forgive, he's the only one who retailiated (several times) with physical violence. 

If you treat their freindship as a love relationship, then it's an abusive one. Sherlock hearing John's voice as derisive, judgmental and insulting doesn't help, either. 

The Train scene-- I would have more of an inclination to think of it as cruel-- if Sherlock and John had actually been estranged lovers-- but they're not. They were friends, colleagues (as John would say) and flatmates. And Sherlock's ruse seemed to be the only way to get John to actually hear Sherlock's apology. Sherlock, I think, is simply inept--and both of them act like children at times. And John has some serious anger-management issues.  The yelling, the punching, strangling, etc, ... Thank goodness he has Mary to help him calm down a bit. 

Also, someone said that "The Fall" was just Sherlock showing off... having trouble with that idea-- Sherlock lost his reputation, his work, his home, his freinds, --to save his freinds, and for Queen and Country. 

That's a hero, in my book. 

I think the writers did a disservice to the main character of their show, if the only thing people take away from it is how evil, sociopathic, etc, etc,  Sherlock is. I find it kinda sad that so many of us see him the way Donovan did. 

Ye Gods, I am obssessed! Back to writing Greglock! :-D

 

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

I keep thinking that a lot of us have a very rigid idea of Sherlock's character--  and honestly, I find it hard to beleive that he could go through all he went through trying to take down Moriarty's "web", and come through unscathed, physically or mentally. 

It's also interesting to me that, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade welcome him back with open arms, Mycroft does as well, in his Holmesian way-- but John is absolutley AWFUL to Sherlock, even after he saves John's life...again. 

Everyone has a shock, yet John is the only one who refused to forgive, he's the only one who retailiated (several times) with physical violence. 

If you treat their freindship as a love relationship, then it's an abusive one. Sherlock hearing John's voice as derisive, judgmental and insulting doesn't help, either. 

The Train scene-- I would have more of an inclination to think of it as cruel-- if Sherlock and John had actually been estranged lovers-- but they're not. They were friends, colleagues (as John would say) and flatmates. And Sherlock's ruse seemed to be the only way to get John to actually hear Sherlock's apology. Sherlock, I think, is simply inept--and both of them act like children at times. And John has some serious anger-management issues.  The yelling, the punching, strangling, etc, ... Thank goodness he has Mary to help him calm down a bit. 

Also, someone said that "The Fall" was just Sherlock showing off... having trouble with that idea-- Sherlock lost his reputation, his work, his home, his freinds, --to save his freinds, and for Queen and Country. 

That's a hero, in my book. 

I think the writers did a disservice to the main character of their show, if the only thing people take away from it is how evil, sociopathic, etc, etc,  Sherlock is. I find it kinda sad that so many of us see him the way Donovan did. 

Ye Gods, I am obssessed! Back to writing Greglock! :-D

 

John was none of those things.  He had every right to be as angry with Sherlock as he was.  They were best friends, and it's only natural that he would feel hurt when he found out that, not only was Sherlock alive all that time, but that other people knew about it and he didn't.  Sherlock misjudged John's feelings and reaction severely, and he deserved his comeuppance.  He made a joke about coming back, saying things like John had no life without him and so on and so forth.  He doesn't act like a man worthy of John's friendship in the beginning, but he endeavors to do so by the end of the episode when he finally, finally realizes how much he's hurt John.

Neither Sherlock nor John have rigid characterizations...they are both fluid and make mistakes like all human beings do.  But Sherlock was in the wrong in this situation...he may have had mitigating circumstances, but he was wrong to let John grieve for so long without a single hint that he was alive.