besleybean wrote:

I can't remember who said it before, but I do think they are right.
This is about 2 guys in  a guy friendship who find emotions difficult and both know the other finds them difficult too.
How else can they get over all this awkwardness and emotions...they are just not the huggy/sobby sort.

 
Yes, I agree. I also think we shouldn't underestimate Sherlock's need for John to forgive him, and his surprise that John didn't initially welcome him back with open arms. He might know John very well, but that doesn't mean he understands his more subtle emotions. I think, as he implies to Mycroft in the beginning, he thought John would still be living and working cases in Baker Street and when he came back everything would go back to the way it was. I really think Sherlock thought John would find his waiter disguise hilarious.  In terms of the tube scene, it speaks to me of Sherlock's desperation to get things back they way there were and also his cluelessness when it comes to understanding how others feel.

I don't see the relationship as necessarily sinister-- but codependent, sure. (Which I think, most of us shippers actually want, sometimes). 

In the Train scene-- I keep thinking that part of Sherlock's actions--may come from the fact that this sort of thing is how he and John bonded in the first place. Laughing innapropriately at crime scenes, etc, . For crying out loud, John joked and laughed about killing someone -- in A Study in Pink. 

And, maybe Sherlock, knowing how badly John can react (violently) thought lightening up the situation might help. (Because John wasn't going to listen, he was more concerned with feeling left out.) And I thought it was interesting that in Sherlock's head, John's voice tended to be critical, derisive, and sometimes even insulting. Hmmmm. 

John was a burnt-out husk of a man before he met Sherlock; thrills, laughter and comradaderie healed him, through Sherlock. 

I think Sherlock has opened up, while John has shut down-- maybe the train prank helped to break down some of John's walls. 

And another thing... this episode really drives it home to me that Sherlock isn't autistic, nor does he have aspbergers, nor is he a sociopath. I think he's gifted, and a bit weird and tempermental because he's gifted. 

Dang it-- I keep thinking of more things to say about this ep....

It was said in the episode that the parents weren't at the funeral.

I'm still thinking up stuff to say, darn it! 

It just hit me that Sherlock never even got a thank you for saving lives: Mrs. Hudson's, Lestrade's and John's. And then he saved John's life again!  For most of the episode, all he got from John was murderous rage. Maybe they both need some therapy? Oy. 

And I'm curious... how do guys view the show and the Sherlock/John dynamic-- as opposed to women? That would be very interesting to see the differences! :-D

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (January 3, 2014 12:39 am)

Yep, that struck me too...
Tho he did have to dismantle the whole of Moriarty's network.

Kerkerian wrote:

I was in awe of Ben's performance because he managed to keep a balance between Sherlock being his usual narcissistic self and Sherlock realizing how deeply he's hurt John and that it will take more than a few jokes to apologize. Also, he has of course changed (which seems inevitable after two years, and especially after what he's been through), but I didn't think he was too different from before. It was written and carried out brilliantly if you ask me.
A perfect example for that is the bomb scene- he still knows how to manipulate John, but the tears seemed real- he desperately wanted his friend to forgive him. And it's typical that he says something like "it wasn't entirely untrue" and then refers to the lights when he actually means that he is aware of what he's put John through and is sorry for that.
 

I concur 
 

kittykat wrote:

Kerkerian wrote:

I was in awe of Ben's performance because he managed to keep a balance between Sherlock being his usual narcissistic self and Sherlock realizing how deeply he's hurt John and that it will take more than a few jokes to apologize. Also, he has of course changed (which seems inevitable after two years, and especially after what he's been through), but I didn't think he was too different from before. It was written and carried out brilliantly if you ask me.
A perfect example for that is the bomb scene- he still knows how to manipulate John, but the tears seemed real- he desperately wanted his friend to forgive him. And it's typical that he says something like "it wasn't entirely untrue" and then refers to the lights when he actually means that he is aware of what he's put John through and is sorry for that.
 

*insert Facebook like button here* 

I've only seen it once so I'm not entirely sure about the logistics, but I thought in the train scene, Sherlock actually believed that they'd both die until he found the off switch. The counter started at two something something and he switched it off about a minute later. So the first part of the dialogue was genuie. Then he took advantage of the situation, but he only fooled his friend for one and a half minute. That's not so callous, though still bad taste. His laughing, well he just believed they were gonna die so he was still full of adrenaline. 

I actually really liked the different responses he gives to the characters, especially in the reunion scene. I think Sherlock was more anxious with John than with anyone else, that's why he can allow himself to be nice to Molly and even Mycroft while he has to hide his insecurities behind humour and nastiness to John. I thought it was brilliantly written, IRL people often try to deflete tension by making jokes at the toughest moments. The humour takes the ham and the gravitas out of the scene, much as what would probably happen in real life. 

Oh, yeah, and there's that. 

I watched it a few times now, and I'm definately going with the 'he found idea of the switch in his mind palace, and then the actual switch on the bomb'. No idea if bombs really work that way but I'm just gonna pretend they do. It's his conversation: he's completely focused on the solution and as soon as he hit the switch he changes the conversation to asking forgiveness.

I actually don't find it so horrible anymore, he just saw an opportunity to end the tension between them. Maybe John would never forgive him and their relationship would be damaged forever. Now he basically forced John into forgiving him and clearing up the air. And point out that John, despite himself, was risking his life to be with him (who knows, maybe he was genuily touched by that).