BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The theory he told Anderson

silverblaze · January 3, 2014 10:14 pm

Well, he could have thrown Moriarty off the roof, have a sniper on him, negotiate with him, create another standoff like in TGG, plenty of options, not all of them require Sherlock to jump, or Moriarty to die, and not all of them would result in the end of their game, but everyone would be safe because of Mycroft's snipers.

besleybean · January 3, 2014 10:39 pm

Ok just watched it again for the third time(more on that on other threads) and I am coming around to the idea that this is the explanation.
Though I definitely think the team are playing on the fact of all of the speculation when really it doesn't matter how...
Oh. I now take it to mean that Mycroft had a sniper posted on John's sniper...because he would have seen Sherlock survive and therefore had to be removed. Sherlock and Mycroft would have worked out where he was. He was the only one at Barts.
Yep, all the other snipers could possibly similarly have been bumped off, but that wouldn't have destroyed Moriarty's international network.
Please remember: John was there by default. There was nothing Sherlock could do to get him away to safety...hell he did try!
But it was better the fewer people knew the plan as possible.

Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2014 10:40 pm)

sherlocked · January 3, 2014 10:56 pm

I believe, Sherlock wanted to 'die' (pretend to be dead) all along, because he told Molly so in TRF. Molly asks Sherlock in that very touching laboratory scene, if he is alright, and that he is always looking sad, when he thinks, John cannot see him. Sherlock admitts after denying it first, that he is not alright, and then says: 'Molly, I'm going to die'. Her answer is (strangely, I think): 'What do you need?'. At that point, Sherlock couldn't know at all, what Moriarty had in store for him on the rooftop, but he was already sad, because he might not see Sherlock for a while, or knew, that he was going to make him sad. And remember, Mycroft also feels sorry for John, when they meet in his club, before the whole plan of Moriarty materialized. He says: 'I'm sorry" to John in a very emotional way. We all thought back then, he was apologizing for his blunder, but we now know, there was no blunder. He was feeling sorry for John, because of what was in store for him: Losing Sherlock at least for a while. So, yes, I think most of the other plans of Mycroft and Sherlock involved pretending to be dead, too. Because that way, he could operate undercover against Moriarty's net.

Mattlocked · January 3, 2014 11:05 pm

Just for the record: He said "I think I'm going to die".
One of 13 possibilities. Which we will not get to know. (Remember . Lestrade: Any ideas? Sherlock: Eight so far.. We didn't get to know all of them)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48WI7SsPn6A

sherlocked · January 3, 2014 11:13 pm

Mattlocked, you're right about the quote, and I just wanted to correct it. But the whole exchange, and Mycroft's attitude towards John makes me think, that the pretended death was, what they were aiming at, since they weren't just out for Moriarty but for the whole network. That was the point of this whole long term operation.

silverblaze · January 3, 2014 11:52 pm

Yeah, but not all the possibilities would have to result in complete succes and not all the ways of taking out the network would require Sherlock to be dead.

@sherlocked I missed that 'I am sorry' thing, good catch. Of course it was Mycroft apologizing to John, now you pointed it out, it looks so obvious. Actually, I liked that line so much that I dismissed every theory that had Mycroft planning it because I wanted it to be meant. But this way, it's still meant, just not for Sherlock, but for John.

BTW, there's me stating a couple of posts back that I didn't want any Reichenbach theories anymore. Still on it at one am. Guess I'm sherlocked.

Punch me in the face · January 4, 2014 12:08 am

Well, he says "I'm sorry, John. Tell him, would you?"

silverblaze · January 4, 2014 12:11 am

Yeah, but there's a big pause between the John and the tell him.

Wholocked · January 4, 2014 2:02 am

I find the third theory unbelievable for all the reasons mentioned - but mostly because as people have said, it ran the risk that Moriarty's network would realise it was faked. The idea that the fake death was purely for John's benefit is absurd.

However, sorry, but Moriarty is dead. There is no room in canon, or in dramatic writing/production for bringing him back. His story is finished. It's over.

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 8:07 am

silverblaze, this line of Mycroft and the way, he looked at John convinced me early on, that Mycroft was in from the very beginning. He knew, what was coming and felt very sorry for John. and he kept tabs on him all the time. He could tell Sherlock right away, where he could find John..At least the part of Mycroft's involvement in theory 3 is probably true.
silverblaze, I kind of expected, that the new episode wouldn't clear up everything. It was too good a cliffhanger, lol! I didn't expect, that some of us might start all over debating again. And this might go on for a while. Next episode probably won't bring much more clarity. I've read a spoiler free review, and it says, the next episode will be a fluffy piece of wedding cake, with crime solving being postponed for at least 40 minutes into the episode. The review said, it is a lot fun with some great punchlines, but I wish, they would go back to their crime solving best with some gravitas. Moriarty might be dead, but there are still other baddies out there. I really hope, 'Sherlock' doesn't go down the comedy alley completely.

tobeornot221b · January 4, 2014 8:23 am

sherlocked wrote:
I really hope, 'Sherlock' doesn't go down the comedy alley completely.

What makes you fear that "Sherlock" would kind of transform into a "comedy"? Just one review of a preview? You should know better. Remember the prospect of a very emotional, devastating cliffhanger at the end of HLV? I can't understand why we have to know everything in advance - even whether we liked an episode or not. I consider this presumptuous.

Mattlocked · January 4, 2014 8:25 am

I've read a spoiler free review, and it says, the next episode will be a fluffy piece of wedding cake, with crime solving being postponed for at least 40 minutes into the episode. The review said, it is a lot fun with some great punchlines, but I wish, they would go back to their crime solving best with some gravitas. Moriarty might be dead, but there are still other baddies out there. I really hope, 'Sherlock' doesn't go down the comedy alley completely.

I agree. I'm a bit concerned now.......

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 8:52 am

hey, tobeornot221b (I still like your moniker), what's presumptuos about expressing a strictly personal preference? My concern isn't based on this one review out there, there are others, which took note of this tendency. And other fans might be perfectly happy about the tone of the show. We will know more pretty soon...

tobeornot221b · January 4, 2014 9:13 am

sherlocked wrote:
hey, tobeornot221b (I still like your moniker), what's presumptuos about expressing a strictly personal preference? My concern isn't based on this one review out there, there are others, which took note of this tendency. And other fans might be perfectly happy about the tone of the show. We will know more pretty soon...

Imagine there hasn't been any kind of Setlock or reviews after previews: We all would be so much looking forward to the episodes - without prejudging.

Mattlocked · January 4, 2014 9:20 am

Hubby just said: You hardcore fans are much to critical. Takes away all the fun you should have.
He's right.

besleybean · January 4, 2014 9:23 am

Everyone's a critic!

tobeornot221b · January 4, 2014 9:27 am

Mattlocked wrote:
Hubby just said: You hardcore fans are much to critical. Takes away all the fun you should have.
He's right.

Fortunately, I'm not a hardcore fan!

Mattlocked · January 4, 2014 9:32 am

tobeornot221b wrote:
Mattlocked wrote:
Hubby just said: You hardcore fans are much to critical. Takes away all the fun you should have.
He's right.
Fortunately, I'm not a hardcore fan!

Same here. I have no idea what he's talking about.

beekeeper · January 4, 2014 9:33 am

I don't think we are going to get an explaination. You know why? Because, as Anderson said, ANY explaination at this point will be a disapointment to the fandom. We have picked over everything, I really doubt there is anything the internet hive mind has missed at this point.

And yet Anderson's explaination doesn't work really either, as he points out.

So I don't think they are going to tell us.

I really do think this was repeated more recently by one of the showrunners but I can't remember where or who. I think I read it in print, maybe the Radio Times or something.

Mrs.Wenceslas · January 4, 2014 10:19 am

another thing - for me really annoying - in Sherlock´s "interview" with Anderson: that explanation about the man looking like Sherlock, hired by Moriarty to kidnap that girl...I find it too complicated. why would Moriarty look for someone looking like Sherlock and then kill him? face mask just should be better and no murders needed. and why should the dead body be at Bart´s morgue? or was Molly looking for it all over London? that doesn´t really make sense to me.