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January 21, 2014 7:08 pm  #381


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Tantalus wrote:

I posted this elsewhere, but after the PBS airing of "The Empty Hearse", there was an hour of commentary on the Sherlock series. As part of that documentary, there were interviews both with Jonathan Aris (Anderson) and Moffat/Gatiss. In both interviews, the principals seemed clearly to indicate that Sherlock was not giving Anderson the correct details, and that we would be wise not to trust the explanation we see.

They left that thought on the DVD extras too. Basically 'Sherlock could be lying, and so could we.'
You never know. in two years time the first scene of S4 could be the 'fake footage' of Mycroft and Moriarty leaving St Barts and shaking hands; and we finally get the real solution. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png

 

 

January 21, 2014 7:20 pm  #382


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Bruce Cook wrote:

Sorry, Golddragon71, but you're mistaken about the sniper being able to see the sidewalk where Sherlock landed.  HIs view of the sidewalk was blocked by the low brick building positioned between the snipers's 2nd floor window and the sidwalk beneath the hospital.  John stood at the far end of the brick building (by desgin, as Sherlock planned it), and it prevented him too from the seeing the sidewalk.  (In the picture below, John has not yet moved back the far corner of the building as Sherlock insisted he do before he jumped.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock14.png


If you look carefully at the view through window where the sniper was located, there is a shot when the camera was positioned higher than the man, and you can see the brick side of the building, because the view is angled downward. (The bricks are much easier to see on TV.  Check and see if I'm right.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock15.jpg


In the other shot of the sniper, when the camera is looking straight out the window, we see the upper part of the trees along the sidewalk across the street.  The roof of the brick building is below the view through the window, so we don't see it. (Again, the tree leaves are easy to see on TV.  Take a look at the episode and see for yourself.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper.jpg


The sniper could see John's upper body over the roof of the brick building as John stood on the sidewalk after Sherlock jumped, but not John's legs or the sidewalk itself.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper2.jpg


However, the sniper was actually in a good position to see the opposite end of the building from where John stood, looking out the window to his right -- which meant he could see the alledged airbag being inflated and moved by the crew of men. 

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/AirBag1.jpg


And the sniper would get an even better look when the ground crew brought the airbag back around the build to hide it from John.  He could easily figure out what had happened and know the suicide was a hoax.  He would then dutifully blow John's brains out.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock16.jpg

That's why I'm convinced there was no big blue airbag.  Sherlock lied to Anderson about that and several other aspects of his fake "explanation" for how the hoax was committed.

You mean the sniper that was 'taken care of' by Mycroft's man who was right behind him in the stairwell?


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

January 21, 2014 7:40 pm  #383


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

My only problem with them not telling us the explanation is that it smacks of lazy writing. As in, the solution was too difficult or even impossible to think of, so they didn't bother. I would be satisfied if I knew that Mofftiss had worked out an explanation but not told us. I just don't want to believe that it was a cop-out on the part of the writers.

So what I will choose to believe instead is that they did work it out but they decided they *couldn't* put it in the show because, as many people on here have suggested, no matter what the explanation was there would be people complaining/disappointed/poking holes/etc. And in a show full of nods to us, Anderson's nit-picking was the wink to us that said "we know no matter what we told you that this is what your reaction would be." 

Either that or Sherlock did give the real explanation and Anderson's reaction was totally meta because his second-guessing makes us second-guess and we're all convinced there's no way that was the real answer when it really was the real answer. 

It's ok, I didn't understand what I just wrote either. 

I only started watching Sherlock last summer, so I can't imagine what people who waited 2 long years for this are feeling like, but I did feel like we were owed an answer. Now, though, I think I understand why they didn't give us one and that the two clearly bogus ones were maybe a way of satisfying us because we weren't going to get what we thought we wanted. And really, I must admit that the GORGEOUSLY filmed slo-mo Sherlock/Molly kiss and the hilarious Sherlock/Moriarity moment were ultimately more satisfying, even if they weren't "real." 

 

January 21, 2014 7:43 pm  #384


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Think we all agree with that!


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January 21, 2014 8:03 pm  #385


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Merry wrote:

My only problem with them not telling us the explanation is that it smacks of lazy writing. As in, the solution was too difficult or even impossible to think of, so they didn't bother. I would be satisfied if I knew that Mofftiss had worked out an explanation but not told us. I just don't want to believe that it was a cop-out on the part of the writers.

So what I will choose to believe instead is that they did work it out but they decided they *couldn't* put it in the show because, as many people on here have suggested, no matter what the explanation was there would be people complaining/disappointed/poking holes/etc. And in a show full of nods to us, Anderson's nit-picking was the wink to us that said "we know no matter what we told you that this is what your reaction would be." 

Either that or Sherlock did give the real explanation and Anderson's reaction was totally meta because his second-guessing makes us second-guess and we're all convinced there's no way that was the real answer when it really was the real answer. 

It's ok, I didn't understand what I just wrote either. 

I only started watching Sherlock last summer, so I can't imagine what people who waited 2 long years for this are feeling like, but I did feel like we were owed an answer. Now, though, I think I understand why they didn't give us one and that the two clearly bogus ones were maybe a way of satisfying us because we weren't going to get what we thought we wanted. And really, I must admit that the GORGEOUSLY filmed slo-mo Sherlock/Molly kiss and the hilarious Sherlock/Moriarity moment were ultimately more satisfying, even if they weren't "real." 

Yes, Merry. I agree. It seems to be a big game to tease the fans. And I don't mind taking the micky. The writers are so pleased that we love the show. So glad you have joined in the fun too.
 

 

January 21, 2014 9:32 pm  #386


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I just always imagined that the true reveal would come from Sherlock telling John how he did it. And there was that moment, when John asked him as they were about to go out and face the press. There was like...five minutes left to spare, and I honestly thought Sherlock was about to tell him then.

You honed in here on the piece that bothered me: I assumed at the time this was the true explanation because 1) it was almost the end of the episode, and 2) I thought he was talking to John. And I assumed he would tell John the truth. (Silly me!)

And then at the end, didn't John ask Sherlock again how he did it?

I do see the point behind the "he wouldn't tell Anderson the truth," comment. I have said many times that he could get back at those who hated him in-universe by keeping them in the dark....thinking about supernatural possibilties...and maybe making them wonder a little if it was anything like History's Greatest Rise From the Dead...and John HAS to be wondering that on some level, too.

I have thought about that conversation between John and Sherlock at thte end of TEH a lot, because it didn't really make much sense to me at first. Sherlock wanted to tell John how he did it very early on in the episode, but was interrupted by John not wanting to know. So why wouldn't he tell him later, once John had calmed down? Now I've come to think that in this last scene at Baker Street, John didn't actually ask Sherlock to tell him how he did it. He doesn't really put a question mark at the end of his sentence, but just quietly states "you're not going to tell me how youd did it". I now have come to the conclusion that this is actually John telling Sherlock NOT to tell him how he actually did it, so they could just pretend it was a miracle Sherlock had provided for John when he asked for it (or two years after he had asked for it, more precisely). I now to see this scene as an understanding between John and Sherlock that to them, Sherlock's return would always stay a miracle, like a gift from Sherlock to John. 

As far as the question of "how he did it" is concerned, there are a few reasons I don't believe that the conversation between Anderson and Sherlock ever took place anywhere else than in Anderson's head. And if it did, it wasn't the truth. The main reason why I think it didn't take place at all is the fact that Sherlock actually tells Anderson on camera that Molly faked the records of his death. Now if this video EVER got into the wrong hands, Molly would not only lose her job, but also face criminal charges and thus get into very serious trouble. Sherlock may call himself a sociopath as much as he wants, but I like to believe that he would never do that to Molly. Other people have already mentioned the atypical use of Anderson's frist name as another clue that the conversation didn't actually take place in reality. 

What also makes me very suspicious is the fact that early in the episode, when Sherlock starts telling John how he (really) did it, he tells him that there were 13 possibilties once he was on that rooftop. Then he goes on explaining why the first of these 13 possibilities could never have worked. So after that, there were only 12 possibilties left. We never get to know if all of them would have worked, but we get to know that there were only 12 left. But to Anderson, Sherlock actually talkes about 13 scenarios that could have worked. Something just doesn't add up here. My theory is that Lestrade actually asked John if Sherlock had told him how he did it. John told him that he had only talked something about thirteen possibilties. Lestrade mentioned this to Anderson when they met the next time and that's how this information made it into Anderson's imagination of Sherlock telling him how he did it. 

But even if this interview with Anderson actually took place, those 13 scenarios are still very suspicous and definitly don't add up to what Sherlock had started to tell John earlier. 

And I think it's just after such an insanely long post that people should start to realize that they have been thinking far too much about a TV-Series . . . http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
 (and just to make sure no one feels offended: I was only referring to myself in this last sentence . . .)

 

January 22, 2014 3:21 am  #387


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I have thought about that conversation between John and Sherlock at thte end of TEH a lot, because it didn't really make much sense to me at first. Sherlock wanted to tell John how he did it very early on in the episode, but was interrupted by John not wanting to know. So why wouldn't he tell him later, once John had calmed down? Now I've come to think that in this last scene at Baker Street, John didn't actually ask Sherlock to tell him how he did it. He doesn't really put a question mark at the end of his sentence, but just quietly states "you're not going to tell me how youd did it". I now have come to the conclusion that this is actually John telling Sherlock NOT to tell him how he actually did it, so they could just pretend it was a miracle Sherlock had provided for John when he asked for it (or two years after he had asked for it, more precisely). I now to see this scene as an understanding between John and Sherlock that to them, Sherlock's return would always stay a miracle, like a gift from Sherlock to John. 

I like the way LightPurple thinks! Traditionally (in every adaptation but this one), Watson was always kind of in awe of Holmes. He is usually played as viewing Holmes coming back as being a miracle and he's focused on being glad he's back.

I don't think John's "I don't care how you faked it," line was just something said in the heat of anger and not meant...I think he genuinely doesn't care. And consider if that Sherlock's not being dead (dare we say, rising from the dead?) was a miracle, it was less about lying and scheming on Sherlock's part. John can think of it as "miraculously not dead," instead of "pretending to be dead and lying to me." Does that make sense?

Or maybe, John doesn't want to think about the implications, things like "how did a body happen to be available"...as we discussed.

And remember: even if the solution we see him tell Anderson was the true one, that does not require that the conversation with Anderson really happened. That could be the true solution and Sherlock could have just imagined himself telling Anderson.

 

January 22, 2014 4:19 am  #388


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Well I bought it. It seemed all real to me. I was so relieved to finally get the answer after waiting so long and I was not disappointed..
As always he outsmarted the bad guys by being two steps ahead and no one even knew he knew!
I was very happy with the explanation.

 

January 22, 2014 4:30 am  #389


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Can we address the change in Sherlock? He seems friendlier more humble, which is all explainable, he had so many of his friends come through and help him. I really had to get used to that though, but what is with the ladies man routine. He is having sex now? He was "the virgin" just a few episodes ago. Now don't get me wrong, I loved it, but I didn't expect it. My secret fantasy always was that after he saved Irene Adler  they went off to some exoctic hotel and she "Thanked" him. So now I see that she probably did and taught him a few things. RoWWWWWW! Wish they made that into an episode! LOL!

 

January 22, 2014 7:22 am  #390


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

Traditionally (in every adaptation but this one), Watson was always kind of in awe of Holmes. He is usually played as viewing Holmes coming back as being a miracle and he's focused on being glad he's back.

I don't think John's "I don't care how you faked it," line was just something said in the heat of anger and not meant...I think he genuinely doesn't care. And consider if that Sherlock's not being dead (dare we say, rising from the dead?) was a miracle, it was less about lying and scheming on Sherlock's part. John can think of it as "miraculously not dead," instead of "pretending to be dead and lying to me." Does that make sense?

To me, this makes perfect sense. I think by stating that he wanted to consider Sherlock's return as a miracle, John expressed that he had truely forgiven Sherlock. Because there's nothing to be angry about when someone has just "given" you a miracle, is there?

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

And remember: even if the solution we see him tell Anderson was the true one, that does not require that the conversation with Anderson really happened. That could be the true solution and Sherlock could have just imagined himself telling Anderson.

I haven't thought about that possibilty, but it could indeed have been like that. Although it still doesn't make sense that Sherlock would use Anderson't first name when he can't be bothered to ever remember Greg's first name. 

I love that we're left in the open and that it's up to each viewer to decide if he/she wants to believe that this how it happened. 
 

Last edited by LightPurple (January 22, 2014 7:23 am)

 

January 22, 2014 7:41 am  #391


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

SPOILER WARNING This answer refers to a question concerning episode 3.03. If you haven't seen it yet, don't read it.



lisa wrote:

Can we address the change in Sherlock? He seems friendlier more humble, which is all explainable, he had so many of his friends come through and help him. I really had to get used to that though, but what is with the ladies man routine. He is having sex now? He was "the virgin" just a few episodes ago. Now don't get me wrong, I loved it, but I didn't expect it. My secret fantasy always was that after he saved Irene Adler  they went off to some exoctic hotel and she "Thanked" him. So now I see that she probably did and taught him a few things. RoWWWWWW! Wish they made that into an episode! LOL!

I don't think he was having sex with Janine. In the hospital, she answered his "I exploited the fact of our connection" remark with: "Just once would have been nice" to which Sherlock responds "I was waiting until we got married". As far as I understand this, Janine was complaining that they never had sex. What else could the "waiting until they got married" remark have referred to?
 

Last edited by LightPurple (January 23, 2014 8:34 am)

 

January 22, 2014 3:57 pm  #392


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

O, I must have missed that. That is a good point. I will have to go back and watch it again. But she did come out of his bedroom in the morning half dresssed and then joined him in the shower and there was all kinds of giggling going on in the bathroom.(Lots of giggling from me too and I'm a grown women, lol)  Now that I'm thinking about it, did they kiss goodbye at the door when she left for work? Well it will be a fun excuse to go back and re-watch it. I'm such a hopeless romantic and I love Sherlock and Benedict Cumberbatch so I am always on the look out for some kissisng and such! Thanks for the response.

 

January 22, 2014 4:09 pm  #393


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Here is another thing I am curious about. Anderson. I was a little slow, at first I didn't recognize him. Did anyone else experience that? I thought they were bringing in a new character. It took me a little while to see that it was Anderson with the long hair and beard. Is he still working for the police department? Because of his guilt and changed attitude does he still have a relationship with Donovan? When did he realize he wronged Sherlock,? Why the change of heart? I would of liked to of seen them go into that a little more.

 

January 22, 2014 4:12 pm  #394


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Would it be out of line to ask for a Spoiler warning? I know there's a huge sign on the forum that basically says there's going to be spoilers everywhere, but this is the Empty Hearse area and I've seen that ep but not the others since they havent aired in the US.

I'd like to be able to talk about the ep with everyone while it's still new (to me, and other US folks) and not have to wait till all three have aired to come into the forum at all. Truly asking if that's out of line or not.

 

January 23, 2014 7:19 am  #395


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Merry wrote:

Would it be out of line to ask for a Spoiler warning? I know there's a huge sign on the forum that basically says there's going to be spoilers everywhere, but this is the Empty Hearse area and I've seen that ep but not the others since they havent aired in the US.

I'd like to be able to talk about the ep with everyone while it's still new (to me, and other US folks) and not have to wait till all three have aired to come into the forum at all. Truly asking if that's out of line or not.

So sorry! I added a spoiler warning to my post. I just tried to answer the quoted question without realizing that it concerned a later episode.
 

 

January 23, 2014 7:37 am  #396


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

SPOILER (maybe http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
)











LightPurple wrote:

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

And remember: even if the solution we see him tell Anderson was the true one, that does not require that the conversation with Anderson really happened. That could be the true solution and Sherlock could have just imagined himself telling Anderson.

I haven't thought about that possibilty, but it could indeed have been like that. Although it still doesn't make sense that Sherlock would use Anderson't first name when he can't be bothered to ever remember Greg's first name. 

I love that we're left in the open and that it's up to each viewer to decide if he/she wants to believe that this how it happened. 
 

Watched the extras on the blu ray yesterday. One of the responsible persons during the filming of the fall mentioned that the 3rd version is the correct one.
But afterwards in the interview with Mofiss it is still left open again. The already known reasons... why should he tell Anderson and so on.. so nothing changed. Also no real explanation on the blu ray. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

January 23, 2014 10:46 am  #397


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

gently69 wrote:

SPOILER (maybe http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
)




Watched the extras on the blu ray yesterday. One of the responsible persons during the filming of the fall mentioned that the 3rd version is the correct one.
But afterwards in the interview with Mofiss it is still left open again. The already known reasons... why should he tell Anderson and so on.. so nothing changed. Also no real explanation on the blu ray. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Yeah, well, and why would they give us a definite answer on the Blueray if they haven't given one in the episode? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

I think the guy on set was the director of TEH, and the fact that he said that the 3rd explanation was the right one made me wonder... did he really think it was the right explanation because Mofftiss told him so? Or was he also just fooling around with us? He stated this so matter-of-factly... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 23, 2014 10:48 am  #398


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

they are all fooling us, maybe http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
/and we like it, don´t we/


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..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

January 23, 2014 10:53 am  #399


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Well I think they said in one interview something like, he propably did it that way, but if you are not okay with that, we leave you the option to believe something different.


________________________________________
It feels squishy! Is it supposed to feel squishy?
http://soundofthedark.de/transfer/forum/lauri-couch.jpg
You’ve salted away every fact under the sun!
 

January 23, 2014 11:02 am  #400


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:

they are all fooling us, maybe http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
/and we like it, don´t we/

I guess so. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


http://24.media.tumblr.com/352eb69c4a4f7927105015e576245157/tumblr_mzq1rpq8tS1ruyz4so2_r1_500.gif


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

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