BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The theory he told Anderson

macytree · January 4, 2014 2:39 pm

Wholocked wrote:
Guys, seriously, MORIARTY IS DEAD. However, if you do wish to debate something that has already been quite clearly stated by all involved, please start a new thread. This thread is about the final theory

Haha, ok! I wasn't actually suggesting Moriarty was alive, only that I was confused about the whereabouts of his body and wether or not it was common knowledge that he was dead. However i realise I was straying from the subject slightly so I will, as you suggest, start a new topic.

ruthinks · January 4, 2014 2:41 pm

I think it is more probable that they haven't yet revealed how he survived. 13 possible scenarios. That was left incomplete. In the coming episodes they would tease us with more survival theories eventually revealing what we await.

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 2:41 pm

Wholocked, I brought this point up, because Anderson seems to assume, that Moriarty is dead (as I do as well). But you are right, what exactly happened to his body, might be worth a new thread. I think, it's worth speculating about. I guess, many people assumed him to be in Sherlock's grave, but if we go by what Sherlock told Anderson, then this Sherlock lookalike should have been probably buried for him.

KKKKK · January 4, 2014 2:45 pm

i have started a new topic as suggested!

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 2:46 pm

macytree, go ahead and start a new thread. I will comment as soon as I cooked dinner for my guests . I think, it's a subject worth speculating about, because, if Anderson isn't completely gaga, his fantasy reveils a few things, and don't forget, he was a police officer at the time of the jump, so he should have some inside information.

dartmoordoggers · January 4, 2014 2:51 pm

ruthinks wrote:
Most of them focus on how he might have survived but convinced John that he didn't. The point is,he made the fall for a different purpose. Moriarty clearly states that Sherlock's friends would get killed if his people don't see Sherlock jump.
So,he had to jump for the shooters. Even if they replaced him by another corpse,the shooters would notice. Even if they brought an air bag,the shooters would notice. Sherlock would not know where all the shooters are located,nor does he know how many Moriarty's people are keeping an eye on him. If he knew,he'd have simply messaged Mycroft to take out those assassins and there would have been no need to jump.
All of the three theories shown in the recent episode,including the one that Sherlock tells Anderson,miss out on the point that Sherlock is watched by the shooters.

He also had to 'die' to go undercover to dismantle Moriarty's network.
Given that Mycroft planned the whole thing his first priority would be to achieve that. Saving the others would of been of secondary importance to Mycroft.
The Watson shooter was got at before the fall, and the other shooters would have been waiting for the recall code. It maybe that the location for the fall was not only to block Watsons sight; but also that of the 'recall observer'.
Not forgetting that when this was all planned the majority of the options would have been based on Moriaty 'staying alive'.
Quite simply; whatever happened, Sherlock had to 'die'.

ruthinks · January 4, 2014 3:10 pm

dartmoordoggers wrote:
ruthinks wrote:
Most of them focus on how he might have survived but convinced John that he didn't. The point is,he made the fall for a different purpose. Moriarty clearly states that Sherlock's friends would get killed if his people don't see Sherlock jump.
So,he had to jump for the shooters. Even if they replaced him by another corpse,the shooters would notice. Even if they brought an air bag,the shooters would notice. Sherlock would not know where all the shooters are located,nor does he know how many Moriarty's people are keeping an eye on him. If he knew,he'd have simply messaged Mycroft to take out those assassins and there would have been no need to jump.
All of the three theories shown in the recent episode,including the one that Sherlock tells Anderson,miss out on the point that Sherlock is watched by the shooters.
He also had to 'die' to go undercover to dismantle Moriarty's network.
Given that Mycroft planned the whole thing his first priority would be to achieve that. Saving the others would of been of secondary importance to Mycroft.
The Watson shooter was got at before the fall, and the other shooters would have been waiting for the recall code. It maybe that the location for the fall was not only to block Watsons sight; but also that of the 'recall observer'.
Not forgetting that when this was all planned the majority of the options would have been based on Moriaty 'staying alive'.
Quite simply; whatever happened, Sherlock had to 'die'.

Agreed. You're right. But somethings you said I've got to question. How would Mycroft or Sherlock know where the 'recall observer(s)' were located? Wouldn't any attempt at placing an air bag or placing a decoy corpse be visible to the recall observer(s)? Also,am still not convinced about Moriarty's suicide. Why would he kill himself? Okay,Sherlock says that he can extract the recall code from him,but I can't imagine any possible way how he would have done that. Even Irene Adler has her cell phone modified in such a way that there are multiple number of codes that do different things than unlocking it. If Sherlock tried to torture Moriarty,he very well could also have had a code which instructs the assassins to execute the order immediately. Point is,Moriarty didn't need to kill himself.

Last edited by ruthinks (January 4, 2014 3:12 pm)

Mrs.Wenceslas · January 4, 2014 3:14 pm

I´ve always thought that moriarty had killed himself because of "losing his game"

dartmoordoggers · January 4, 2014 3:15 pm

I'm convinced that Moriaty is dead for a number of reasons; not least because he is not going to sit back for two years and watch while his whole network is dismantled. But thats for another thread.

ruthinks · January 4, 2014 3:18 pm

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:
I´ve always thought that moriarty had killed himself because of "losing his game"

But he didn't,did he? He won. Sherlock had imagined all that 'beats and digits',which wasn't true. After some time,Sherlock comes near Moriarty,says stuff,then Moriarty looks him in the eye,suddenly realizes that Sherlock's not ordinary either,thanks him,then he pulls out a gun and kills himself. What for? Not convincing.

ruthinks · January 4, 2014 3:23 pm

So 3 questions
How did Sherlock suppose to extract the recall code from Moriarty?
What did Moriarty suddenly 'see' in Sherlock that made him think that he wasn't ordinary?
Why did Moriarty kill himself when he clearly had beaten Sherlock?

stoertebeker · January 4, 2014 3:25 pm

ruthinks wrote:
Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:
I´ve always thought that moriarty had killed himself because of "losing his game"
But he didn't,did he? He won. Sherlock had imagined all that 'beats and digits',which wasn't true. After some time,Sherlock comes near Moriarty,says stuff,then Moriarty looks him in the eye,suddenly realizes that Sherlock's not ordinary either,thanks him,then he pulls out a gun and kills himself. What for? Not convincing.

Because it was the only way to win over Sherlock. It was his ultimate goal, overcome his enemy, the only man in the world who is on the same level as himself. With beating Sherlock his life wouldn't have any purpose anymore because of all other people being ordinary. So he killed himself to ensure his victory.

ruthinks · January 4, 2014 3:29 pm

This is a weird,but interesting solution
http://sherlocktheories.tumblr.com/post/66958445237/thereichenbachsolution-i-solved-the-case-of

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 4:45 pm

Ha, ha ruthinks, that's a really weird (and almost certainly not correct) solution. But it touches something very important, IMO. This weird dialog on the roof top, and this moment, when Moriarty is looking at Sherlock's eyes, and sees or realizes SOMETHING, screams for an explanation. I was looking forward to that more than anything. Even, if I'm ready to accept theory No 3, I want an explanation for THAT moment. I'm assuming, of course, that Sherlock wasn't merely trash talking, so his crew could blow up the pillow. lol! This dialog was brilliant writing, but without further explanation it's pretty meaningless.

besleybean · January 4, 2014 4:51 pm

Not entirely sure what you mean here.
Moriarty was gradually unwinding...he'd lost the plot.

Sherlock Holmes · January 4, 2014 5:08 pm

I don't think Sherlock ever believed in the binary code that could break into any system. He was just playing him, pretending he'd been taken in.

besleybean · January 4, 2014 5:19 pm

Quite.

sherlocked · January 4, 2014 5:29 pm

No, I don't think, Sherlock believed into the binary code, that was pretending, and he gained time, but that weird moment, when they talk about shaking hands in hell, and Moriarty suddenly realizes, that Sherlock isn't ordinary after all, looking into Sherlock's face, as if he has seen a miracle, I really think, they are talking about something specific. Moriarty isn't simply unwinding. He was very much in control, when he told Sherlock, nobody could make him do things, he didn't want to. Then he looks into Sherlock's eyes, and changes his mind. Why? He was so sure before, that no torture in hell could extract the code word for calling back the killers. What did he realize?

besleybean · January 4, 2014 5:35 pm

Possibly I was being too simplistic.
I always took it that the change in mind came when Moriarty tthought Sherlock had worked out that there was a recall code for the snipers...

Sherlock Holmes · January 4, 2014 5:35 pm

sherlocked wrote:
No, I don't think, Sherlock believed into the binary code, that was pretending, and he gained time, but that weird moment, when they talk about shaking hands in hell, and Moriarty suddenly realizes, that Sherlock isn't ordinary after all, looking into Sherlock's face, as if he has seen a miracle, I really think, they are talking about something specific. Moriarty isn't simply unwinding. He was very much in control, when he told Sherlock, nobody could make him do things, he didn't want to. Then he looks into Sherlock's eyes, and changes his mind. Why? He was so sure before, that no torture in hell could extract the code word for calling back the killers. What did he realize?

Maybe he's just a nutcase?