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March 30, 2013 3:09 pm  #121


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Read a good interview a while back though can't remember who with-one of the writers I think.. The gist of it was that they thought the Holmes brothers had actually had a normalish, happy childhood (which is good because I am dreading a father-killed-mother-having-affair cliche a la 7 % solution and so on). Adding to that, I just wonder if the real issue here is that they are both so ridiculously overblown and dramatic and so you can see a fight over Smurfs turning into a six month stand off. 

I would love to discover that there is nothing odd in their upbringing, that we don't see their parents because they are just, say, abroad (canon has it that Sherlock's mother is possibly French) and that there is no basis or secret angst to this drama. I'm guessing that they are ridiculously rich but even that might not be the case-they are obviously both going to have been able to get public school scholarships. Also their names-I think they tell against it a bit. In Britain, very rich people normally give their kids normal ish names, outlandish names to me would not suggest old money.

One thing I felt worked in support of this-we know that Moriaty has his life story but there seems to be nothing outstandingly unusual in it, the headline isn't "Fake Genius Mother ran off with Maths Teacher!" (7% solution).

I really do like the idea that the problem really was an escalating rivalry over incredibly petty things.

I also


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 30, 2013 5:01 pm  #122


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

beekeeper wrote:

I really do like the idea that the problem really was an escalating rivalry over incredibly petty things.

This is the first thing I thought about their relationship after I watched Sherlock for the first time.


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March 30, 2013 5:30 pm  #123


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Very rich people sometimes give their children normallish names but certainly this does not apply to the female side of the present royal family:
Savannah, Isla, Zara, Margarita, Beatrice, Eugenie.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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March 30, 2013 6:54 pm  #124


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

 I'm not up on my royals but I'm pretty sure we also have Williams and Henrys and James and Peters. Whats unusual is to give a boy an outlandish name. Sherlock and Mycroft are more in the Beckham style I think. I can totally see Sherlock and Mycroft as celebrity baby names. They are not old money names. 

 Perhaps they are the children of someone along the lines of Paul Daniels and Debbie McGee and spent a highly resentful childhood touring the seaside resorts of Britain?

Actually I like this theory. It would explain a lot, for example why they are both so freaking good at cold reading and don't really talk about their parents. Mycroft angling at some level of normality. And also-its a small thing, but the phrase "I'll be mother" is not really an uber-rich Harrow-and-Eton phrase.

Last edited by beekeeper (March 30, 2013 8:04 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 30, 2013 7:01 pm  #125


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Maybe just Arthur Conan Doyle liked weird names? I like giving strange names to my OCs.


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March 30, 2013 7:09 pm  #126


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

yeah but we need an explaination of why they are called this in the 21st c.

And I think there is a rich seam here to be mined. I am really liking this idea of the Holmes tribe piling into a Morris Minor and touring the seaside resorts with a stack of suitcases on the roofrack.


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 30, 2013 10:01 pm  #127


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Ah but they weren't named this in the 21st Century. They keep these names in the TV series because  these were the names ACD gave them in his 19th and early 20th century stories and therefore it is true to canon.

Originally the name Sherlock was an Irish surname meaning cropped (or bright) hair (depending on which theory you favour). Scurlog is the Irish spelling though there should be an acute over the O which I cannot get my laptop to do!

Mycroft is also really a surname, particularly found in the Midlands meaning: the farm by the function of the waters.

Why ACD should choose two names most usually used as surnames...I do not know. Makes them pretty unique and easy to remember though.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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     Thread Starter
 

March 31, 2013 9:02 am  #128


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

yy Davina I know why ACD chose those names. I seem to remember Sherlock was a slightly more common name back then and that it was then name of a cricketer ACD admired.

The thing with the show though is that they always try to provide an internal consistency that works in the 21st century. They work with things that we find unusual as viewers now and usually lampshade them. So the Diogenes club is explained as a diplomatic necessity, the fact that Mycroft isn't corpulent is explained with diet pills. Meaning that the discrepancy between their names and what seems to be their class is open to interpretation. And I'm interested in how they explain it, if they ever do, because I think there might be something really interesting there.

Last edited by beekeeper (March 31, 2013 9:05 am)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 31, 2013 12:27 pm  #129


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Ah...I get what you mean. I doubt they will though, unless it becomes integral to a storyline.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
     Thread Starter
 

February 15, 2014 2:47 am  #130


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

I have begun to feel like, whatever Mycroft's intentions toward Sherlock - whatever his feelings underneath - a lot of Sherlock's personality issues seem to have their roots in his relationship with Mycroft. The whole "caring is not advantage" and "better not to have emotions" thing seems to have been taught by Mycroft, and Sherlock also seems to feel insecure about his intelligence because he's had Mycroft to compare himself to.

I thought Mycroft had "raised" him...but then we met the seemingly normal and decent Mr. and Mrs. Holmes.

And finally, in canon, Mycroft did bring Sherlock a few cases on behalf of the British government, but that wasn't the bulk of Sherlock's work. Here, Mycroft is directing Sherlock a lot more than in canon, or sometimes he's not directing, but much of Sherlock's work is more "James Bond" than detective, and relates to Mycroft's work.

And one thing I don't like about that: it means that somebody is "onstage" much of the time who is as smart as Sherlock. Sherlock's uniqueness is diminished because there are two "Holmes brothers" much alike, and Sherlock becomes the secondary one.

 

August 16, 2016 5:41 pm  #131


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

I really didn't know where to put this, but I found a meta about Sherlock growing up that I think is absolutely amazing. So I wanted to share:

https://asherlockstudy.tumblr.com/post/149032090585/the-seventh-stranger-ace-sherlock-holmes


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October 20, 2016 10:53 am  #132


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Again, I am very late to the party here and I'm sure I am rehashing old ground, so ignore me unless I say something interesting.

Mycroft is set up in the first episode as a possible villain, and then revealed as the protective big brother at the end.  He is treated as more and more of a "good guy" throughout the series, although his protection of CAM (and sending Sherlock to his death rather than putting him on trial for murder) is a striking example of when he's not.  Mycroft, who "*is* the British government, when he isn't busy being the British Intelligence Service or the CIA on a freelance basis," comes across as pretty scary.  He shows John his control over surveillance cameras, abducts John off the street, and tries to bribe him to spy on Sherlock, while *quoting John's therapist's notes.*  John is not a criminal.  He has done absolutely nothing to justify this level of surveillance.  

So Mycroft, using his power in the British government, has already gotten copies of John's therapist's notes--within 48 hours--apparently without her knowledge, as John never confronts her on it and she never mentions it as far as we know.  That right there should have landed Mycroft in jail for a very, very long time.  Talk about abuse of power and lack of respect for privacy.  I don't think I have many illusions about the good behavior of governments, and I know the British put up with far more surveillance than Americans would (when we know about it), but really?  This kind of attitude of "I'm the good guy, so anything I do is OK" is one very good reason for Sherlock to dislike his brother, aside from a difficult childhood.  No, they are not always "on the same side," and that's fine with me.

 

October 20, 2016 10:59 am  #133


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

I sort of agree with your assessment, cmb711, but I think it's also important to keep in mind that, as an action/drama show, the events and characters are portrayed a little 'larger than life'. So while you or me would be horrified to find out privacy invaded in such a manner, and expect legal repercussions, I don't think that's very "realistic" in the world of Sherlock. John seems to let it slide simply because that's what characters do in shows like these. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png


Also, in terms of Mycroft being "the British government", I don't think he's intended to be involved in the kind of moral, upstanding way you're suggesting. He's the clandestine power-that-be working underneath the public face of the government, which I've no doubt must actually exist in real life, in some capacity. As such, he can't really be threatened in that way. It's his job, as a spy, to get his hands on any pertinent information he deems important.

Still though, I liked your post and I'd be a hypocrite to suggest it over-analyses the subject, me being a TJLCer!

Last edited by GimmeCat (October 20, 2016 11:05 am)


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October 20, 2016 11:01 am  #134


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Raiding a psychiatrist's office was what got President Nixon impeached (eventually).

 

October 20, 2016 11:06 am  #135


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Sorry, see my edit. Added a bit after I posted. The thing is, Mycroft isn't a public official. Most people in the country probably has no idea he even exists, let alone his job title or responsibilities/power.


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October 20, 2016 11:07 am  #136


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Yeah, it's an action show.  I wouldn't have complained about the scene at all except for that, but I thought that was over the top.  On the other hand, we got the really good line about John's hand tremor, so OK--but I also think it makes clear that Mycroft is not necessarily trustworthy.

 

October 20, 2016 11:08 am  #137


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Ah, but he is a government official.  At least he says, "I hold a minor position in the British government."
 

 

October 20, 2016 11:18 am  #138


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

He's definitely not trustworthy IMO, I totally agree with you there! I think they're pulling a triple-bluff with regards to him being a villain. M-Theory and all that.

But I think his motivations are ultimately out of love. He just has a Not Good way of going about it.


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October 20, 2016 3:14 pm  #139


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Mycroft is shady at best, we know he has done some rather questionable things in the past: kidnapping John, stealing a jumbo jet worth of dead bodies, torturing Moriarty... but I believe him that he does it all with good intentions, but in the end he is as damaged as Sherlock is and with the power he commands, it comes out in the most scary ways.

For the meta: very interesting. Actually complies with a lot of my own head canon. For some reason Mycroft seems to have played a much bigger part in Sherlock's upbringing than an older sibling should have to shoulder. Also, going by the TEH comment about the other children, Mycroft must have been isolated for a very long time. For him and Sherlock to judge the younger one an idiot, and for Sherlock to be able to remember it, I think Sherlock must have been at the very least four or five. I think Sherlock and Mycroft are meant to be seven years apart, which would make Mycroft at least eleven when he first interacted with other children, rather unsuccessfully it appears. I would think that he fanatically latched on to Sherlock, now seeing that he would be the only living thing that he could half-way connect to in this world of goldfish. That would be enough to create the two men we see today: one desperately trying to protect and connect the one person he can relate to, and one feeling forever smothered and just not good enough. 


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    http://i.picasion.com/av/83/2rrf.jpg
 

October 20, 2016 10:59 pm  #140


Re: Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Here's an article that wellingtongoose wrote about Mycroft's job that I find very informative:

http://wellingtongoose.tumblr.com/post/32412162614/enigma1

According to her article, Mycroft is a civil servant who specializes in disaster management.  Read the article and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 

Last edited by kgreen20 (October 20, 2016 11:05 pm)

 

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