BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Sherlock's relationship with Mycroft

Davina · March 28, 2012 9:28 pm

As a point for discussion and analysis (Sherlock would be proud of me) I would like to suggest that we look in detail at the relationship between Mycroft and Sherlock.

Perhaps it would be best to look at how it is revealed in each episode and then draw some overall conclusions.

Wholocked · March 28, 2012 10:25 pm

This is one area where they are a little removed from the canon. In the books, Mycroft and Sherlock have quite a functioning relationship. Mycroft is actually more intelligent and sees things that Sherlock doesn't, but he's fat and lazy and won't follow them up. Sherlock is the one that is prepared to do the leg work. So there are occassions in the books where Sherlock will bring something to Mycroft for his take on it; and Mycroft regularly refers cases to Sherlock.

It's interesting that they've chosen to create a sibling rivalry in this series. However, I've seen someone discussing the scene when they believe Irene Adler to be dead and Mycroft gives him a cigarette in the corridor. That's probably the most honest depiction of their relationship, as there is no-one around to observe them so they are not performing for anyone in-universe. In that scene, they seem to understand each other quite well and it makes me wonder if the rest of it is just for the benefit of others because of some other agenda they have going. Maybe it suits them for the world to believe they are estranged?

kazza474 · March 29, 2012 2:53 am

What we see of their relationship is what they want everyone to see. Antagonists to each other.
But think about what we don't see.
Mycroft could very well go about his business without involving Sherlock at all. He has plenty of other people at his disposal. He'd have to 'use' more people than just one, but he could still get the results he wanted.
Sherlock could very well go about his business without involving Mycroft. He too has plenty of ways to get information when needed; again it would take more people than one but he could do it.

So if they are quite capable without the other one, why consult each other? (and they do consult each other)
Because they DO respect each other, they do trust each other and they do 'love' each other in their own quirky ways.

They are both on the same intellectual level; the best way to be 'productive' is for them to work together to achieve the best result. Working against each other would nullify any worth they have.

Now knowing this, it is easy to see why Mycroft 'looks out' for his little brother. In the wrong hands, Sherlock could be used as a weapon against him and therefore against the Government. It's also easy to see why Sherlock will do things for Mycroft, because in the wrong hands, Mycroft could be used as a weapon against Sherlock.

Now as I said, they show everyone an 'antagonistic' relationship. Why? Because to show otherwise would expose a weakness in their armour.

But take a moment to think about this: what is it that Mycroft and Sherlock are working towards?

Last edited by kazza474 (March 29, 2012 2:54 am)

Wholocked · March 29, 2012 4:48 am

kazza474 wrote:
But take a moment to think about this: what is it that Mycroft and Sherlock are working towards?

ARGH!!!!! Brain Exploding!

Last edited by Wholocked (March 29, 2012 4:49 am)

kazza474 · March 29, 2012 4:51 am

It's not really.

Wholocked · March 29, 2012 4:53 am

LOL so literal. No, I just really wanted an excuse to use that gif somewhere. Cause it's so cute.

Seriously though, do you have any theories on their end game? Or do you think they just have gotten into the habit? I suspect that there is a wariness between them, but that doesn't mean they don't understand, respect and even care about each other.

tobeornot221b · March 29, 2012 5:03 am

To me. most of the relationships in Sherlock are kind of love stories, at least twisted ones.
Mycroft's and Sherlock's relationship works against the background of caring for "Queen and country" mainly but in fact is about caring for each other - not necessarily liking each other.

kazza474 · March 29, 2012 5:15 am

Wholocked wrote:
LOL so literal. No, I just really wanted an excuse to use that gif somewhere. Cause it's so cute.

Seriously though, do you have any theories on their end game? Or do you think they just have gotten into the habit? I suspect that there is a wariness between them, but that doesn't mean they don't understand, respect and even care about each other.

Not so much their end game, but their purpose.
They both work for the good of mankind; they both work to make the world a safer place. That is it simply.
Look at Sherlock, all that brilliance & he spends time solving crimes? Now he doesn't always hand over things to the police, but he does ensure the 'bad guys' are neutralised in some way or the other. So he is working for the good of mankind. Look at the famous scene with John:

Dr. John Watson: There are lives at stake Sherlock. Actual human lives. Jus-Just so I know, do you care about that at all?
Sherlock Holmes: Will caring about them help save them?
Dr. John Watson: Nope.
Sherlock Holmes: Then I'll continue to not make that mistake.

So he is in the business of saving lives. That is what he wants to do, save strangers' lives. Are there many people who spend their time without pay in such a way?

Mycroft does similar. He neutralises criminals in whatever way he can, for the good of mankind.

So it's very simple, they are dedicated to making the world a better place. It appears they only have each other 'family wise'. So it is not about making the world a better place for their offspring, but simply because it is the right thing to do.

People wouldn't think of Sherlock that way really would they?

Last edited by kazza474 (March 29, 2012 5:15 am)

kazza474 · March 29, 2012 5:22 am

This 'not liking' each other thing is a concept people have. Just because they portray that image doesn't make it true.

I'm very much a person who doesn't show open affection, in fact my dry wit sometimes gets misinterpreted. eg My daughter came home from school years ago with her friend after her final exams:
Daughter :"Mum, I got 98 % on my Physics exam!"
Me: " Ok, well let's go over what was wrong and make sure that doesn't happen again".
Daughter & her friend just stared at me.
Friend stepped out of the room, gobsmacked!
Daughter hugged me as the tears of pride welled up in my eyes.
I had to explain my words to her friend; I'm not a 'fantastic/yippee' person.

Look they like each other; of they didn't they wouldn't bother talking to each other at all. Neither of them need the other one.

Sherlock Holmes · March 29, 2012 5:51 am

I think Mycroft and Sherlock's relationship really isn't that dissimilar from any other sibling relationship in the world. They argue, they bicker, they make fun of each other and do things to purposely wind the other up, but deep down they love and respect each other and would do anything for each other.

Put it this way...if Mycroft had been the one about to get a sniper bullet, Sherlock still would have jumped off that roof!

Davina · March 29, 2012 5:53 am

They actually understand each other very well. Mycroft is the only person who has known Sherlock all his life. Mycroft clearly CSS about his brother deeply going so far as to bribe his new flat-mate so he knows what he is up to; nothing he would feel uncomfortable with though. Sherlock is not in the least bit upset about his brother paying to spy on him, indeed he knows immediately when John mentions him that this is what he will have tried to do. Sherlock does not recognise his brother as being a friend but immediately knows who John is taking about when he uses the word enemy. (At this stage Moriarty has not 'appeared'.

Although Sherlock, according to Mycroft, refers to him as his 'arch enemy' Mycroft makes it clear to John that he worries about Sherlock 'constantly'.

The mentioning of how the 'boys' behaviour 'used to upset Mummy' shows what their family life must have been like. It is curious, and unusual in this day-and-age for a grown man to use the word 'Mummy', although it is sometimes used amongst the upper-classes here way beyond when most people would stop saying it, especially those who have been to public school.

Mycroft appears right at the end of Study in Pink and looks secretly quite chuffed that Sherlock has a friend and says that it could be the making of him. He also intends to increase his surveillance of him though, which means he must have had him under surveillance already.

It is interesting that Moftiss have departed from canon with the character of Mycroft in the series. The question is, why have they chosen to do this? Is it merely to enhance the story-line? To give Sherlock a foil to play off?

I've only really looked at Mycroft and Sherlock in detail in Study in Pink, at the moment. When I get a minute, or more, I'll have a go at the next episode.

I like the idea of the neutralising criminals bit, it is certainly something the brothers have in common.

Sherlock Holmes · March 29, 2012 6:02 am

Lol, it's to give Mark Gatiss an ego trip! I'm kidding I'm kidding...

I love how they've developed Mycroft's character in this series. The end of Study in Pink when he says their names then it cuts back to them walking and grinning together just before the credits roll is one of my favourite moments in the whole series...it sends a tingle up my spine!

First time I saw the part where John is stalked then meets Mycroft in the warehouse I initially thought that he was Moriarty, and I think you are supposed to think he's a villain till right at the end when they start talking about Mummy. I woud love to know what their childhood was like...how did they upset Mummy? And what was so bad about their Christmas dinners??

kazza474 · March 29, 2012 6:03 am

Davina wrote:
It is interesting that Moftiss have departed from canon with the character of Mycroft in the series. The question is, why have they chosen to do this?

In what way?

Wholocked · March 29, 2012 6:34 am

Check out this and [url='http://mkhey.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/sherlock-technique-comparing-acd-to-bbc-part-1-the-mind-palace/"]this[/url] posts analysing this same thing.

And they do depart from canon entirely when it comes to Mycroft and the relationship with Sherlock. I think I posted something about that somewhere else. In canon, they have quite a pleasant relationship; Sherlock acknowledges that Mycroft is smarter, but lazy. He'd rather not exert any energy to determine if his deductions are correct or not. Whereas Sherlock is a bit of a bull-dog and keeps at it until he has his answer. It's implied in the books that Sherlock seeks Mycroft's opinion on his cases from time to time. There's no rivalry between them in the books.

I suspect that part of the BBC version is that this is a younger pair. Maybe they end up in a comfortable relationship when they're older and more mature but for now, they haven't come to that resolution yet.

Davina · March 29, 2012 6:43 am

And Mycroft is on a continual diet in the series, with Sherlock continually referring to his weight. This is clearly a nod to the canon. Maybe Mark will have to put on tonnes of weight by the end!

Just an aside really, but the BBC is also known as Mummy. Lol

Davina · March 29, 2012 6:53 am

I think, in the warehouse use scene when initially Mycrfot seems to be warning John off associating with Sherlock, that he is actually testing John's mettle, as it were. He says to him about how very loyal he is so very quickly. He knows that John cannot be bribed to sell Sherlock out, even at this early stage of their relationship, so that he knows John is an honourable man. He also knows that John is an army doctor, back from Afghanistan and that as such is used to all that entails; what an ideal 'partner' for his 'little brother'.

Is there anything else to be gleaned from Study in Pink? Do you think?

Wholocked · March 29, 2012 7:46 am

Moftiss (I think it was Mark Gatiss) actually stated that the weight comments were a nod to the canon.

sherlocked · March 29, 2012 9:09 am

What MoGiss did with the Mycroft character, is one of the really nice and interesting things in the show. And as far as I know, it's a first. No other screen interpretation has done it before.
I wrote in the other thread about Sherlock's smoking habit, that I thought this scene in the morgue, when Mycroft offers him a cig to test Sherlock's will power, and then, when his will power turns out to be not in such a good shape, orders John to stay with Sherlock in a 'danger night', rather touching. Though Mycroft has just declared, that caring is not an advantage, he shows nevertheless how deeply he cares for his little brother. That's one of the reasons, that I don't believe for a moment, Mycroft doesn't know about Sherlock's faked death.His cool, but thoughtful reaction to the newspaper article shows, he must be in the know.

Last edited by sherlocked (March 29, 2012 9:55 am)

Sherlock Holmes · March 29, 2012 9:27 am

Yeah, he definitely knows about it, and was probably involved in planning it too!

sherlocked · March 29, 2012 9:55 am

Yep, I agree, Sherlock. Can't wait to find out, in what way Mycroft is involved.
By the way. it's interesting that Mycroft is not a target for Moriarty's assassins, though, that could be just for the reason of Mycroft being protected too well.