BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

KeepersPrice · June 24, 2012 1:08 pm

Davina wrote:
Perfectly true KeepersPrice about typical Army language. A friend of mine, who is German, married a British Army soldier and it took her some time to realise that the everyday expletives were actually swear words. True these are used less amongst the officers. The watershed would allow some of these words after 9 p.m. But they could always have John being bleeped out for a good couple of minutes or so and leave the colourful language to the viewers' imagination, I am sure we would all get the gist!.

Actually censorship beeps getting in the way of the story would be annoying I think - but maybe the writers could weave in something clever getting in the way of swear words like a car horn blaring at strategic moments.

I'm still not keen on the punch in the face idea. I mean, they've already done it in Scandal so it would sort of be like Moriarty repeating himself with the botulism poison in Game. The difference of course would be that in Scandal the punch scene was played for humor where this might not be. Well, these writers and actors are good so I'm sure they'll come up with something. Let's see, filming starts January 2013, then there's all that editing that needs to be done. Long wait *sigh* Keep speculating everyone......

Dramagod · June 24, 2012 1:18 pm

I was just reading "Empty House" and I was wondering [SPOILER]how much time will pass between TRF and the first episode of season 3? In Empty House it took Sherlock 3-4 years before he revealed to John that he's not dead. And during this time he traveled to Mekka, Tibet and so on. How long do you think will pass in this show? I'd say a few months at least, as it wouldn't be as effective if only a couple of days went by before John would get to know the truth. I think John must take longer to feel the pain of losing his friend so the impact will be stronger when he find's out Sherlock is fine and dandy. So what do you guys think?

Last edited by Dramagod (June 24, 2012 1:20 pm)

KeepersPrice · June 24, 2012 1:46 pm

Dramagod wrote:
I was just reading "Empty House" and I was wondering [SPOILER]how much time will pass between TRF and the first episode of season 3? In Empty House it took Sherlock 3-4 years before he revealed to John that he's not dead. And during this time he traveled to Mekka, Tibet and so on. How long do you think will pass in this show? I'd say a few months at least, as it wouldn't be as effective if only a couple of days went by before John would get to know the truth. I think John must take longer to feel the pain of losing his friend so the impact will be stronger when he find's out Sherlock is fine and dandy. So what do you guys think?

I think the time will be much shorter than in the canon. In the modern electronic/jet age world ideas and actions can move at very fast pace. If Mycroft is in on any of this he can probably clear Sherlock's name in a matter of days and the Secret Service can root out the assassins and others in Moriarty's network who may be of threat to the country. Or these people will just fade away into the woodwork if their puppet master is no longer pulling the strings.

John's grief is at it's sharpest and most poignant right now. Perhaps the bigger emotional impact of Sherlock's reveal would be felt by him sooner rather than later when he's had time to recover. Just my thoughts.....

Sherli Bakerst · June 24, 2012 2:08 pm

Excellent points, KeepersPrice; I hadn't thought of them before. I especially like your point about John's grief. But, don't forget--John is telling the tale three months after it happened, according to the subtitle shown on screen. It's clear, though, that he hasn't yet fully recovered (not sure that's the right word, though), but I got the sense when he was talking to his therapist that he had somewhat accepted the fact that Sherlock was dead, though not the "fact" that he was a fake. However, I do agree that there would be a bigger emotional impact on John if Sherlock were to reappear sooner rather than later.

KeepersPrice · June 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
Excellent points, KeepersPrice; I hadn't thought of them before. I especially like your point about John's grief. But, don't forget--John is telling the tale three months after it happened, according to the subtitle shown on screen. It's clear, though, that he hasn't yet fully recovered (not sure that's the right word, though), but I got the sense when he was talking to his therapist that he had somewhat accepted the fact that Sherlock was dead, though not the "fact" that he was a fake. However, I do agree that there would be a bigger emotional impact on John if Sherlock were to reappear sooner rather than later.

Interesting point about the time lapse Sherli, but my interpretation of the episode is that the flashback which starts the actual Reichenbach story with the return of the painting occurs three months before John's visit to the therapist. Moving forward in time from that point we have a lot of things happening over that three month period. We have Moriarty's break-ins and then the trial and then the kidnapping and the beginning of the smear campaign all of which would have taken quite a bit of time to unfold - 3 months at the very least. So my interpretation is that John's visit to the therapist is very close to Sherlock's supposed death. John asks her if she has read the newspapers and watched the telly. News stories today have a very short shelf life so again I interpret this to mean this is very recent news. When the therapist says, "It's been 18 months since your last visit" I took that to mean the visit we saw in the very first episode. John really hasn't had need of her services once he met up with Sherlock.

sherlockskitty · June 24, 2012 8:08 pm

I'm thinking still that John will do one of these things---

1. Punch sherlock in the face and knock him to the floor,

2. Grab sherlock by the neck and push him against the wall "WHY didn't you trust me enough to keep your secret?!!"

3. Not faint, just turn around and walk away. Sherlock goes after him, and then they start fighting and throwing punches....

Dramagod · June 24, 2012 8:30 pm

In "Empty House" when John discovers Sherlock is still alive, he says that it was the first and last time in his life that he passed out. It's very possible the same thing happen's in the show too. I think he either passes out or punches Sherlock or both.

Silent.Ecstasy · June 25, 2012 2:42 am

I'm actually thinking that John punching Sherlock would be somewhat overrated....I know a lot of people might not think so, but it doesn't seem like John to me anymore o:

I don't think I really know what John will do when he sees Sherlock, but punching him doesn't seem all that emotional....does it?

Again, I'm pretty sure SM and MG will think of something totally amazing and worthy of the Sherlock series :3

sherlockskitty · June 25, 2012 9:14 pm

It's been said that John won't faint, by Moftiss. He almost DID faint when he saw Sherlock dead on that pavement in TRF. So that was taken care of in there. Swear words--yeah I can see John swearing at Sherlock and I just WANT him to punch sherlock. doesn't mean that's gonna happen, but....I want it in there, somehow, and that's how I would write it.

ancientsgate · June 25, 2012 9:42 pm

Silent.Ecstasy wrote:
I'm actually thinking that John punching Sherlock would be somewhat overrated....I know a lot of people might not think so, but it doesn't seem like John to me anymore o: I don't think I really know what John will do when he sees Sherlock, but punching him doesn't seem all that emotional....does it?

John has a history in the series of being fully capable of punching someone in the face. In fact, both times I can think of, it was an emotional reaction. The first time, Sherlock ASKED him to hit him in the face, and when he refused, Sherlock punched John to get him going, and without two seconds of thought, John was all over him like white on rice, punching him right in the face and (as I remember) knocking him down. I would call that an emotional reaction. And then in TRF, he broke that police inspector's nose when the cop stood there and insulted Sherlock, calling him "some kind of weirdo, if you ask me" and then snarling, "What're you looking at?" when John gave him The Look. Bam! And I would call THAT emotional as well.

The only emotion most men admit to or think they know how to handle is anger-- you piss me off, you hurt someone I care about, you get in my way, then stand back, because I will lash out at you-- with my words, with my fists, with my influence. So to think that John wouldn't react to his first sight of a supposedly resurrected Sherlock with an right uppercut to the face-- well, he's got a history of doing just that, when provoked. So why not?

imane nikko · June 25, 2012 10:00 pm

It's totally not John's character, but if someone I loved was "dead" and then reappeared, I'm pretty sure I'd just sob uncontrollably. Maybe some combination of tears and punching, then?

ancientsgate · June 26, 2012 1:29 am

imane nikko wrote:
It's totally not John's character, but if someone I loved was "dead" and then reappeared, I'm pretty sure I'd just sob uncontrollably. Maybe some combination of tears and punching, then?

Are you a woman? That's why the sobbing thing. Men strike out-- if not with fists (my own husband would never hit anyone, I don't believe-- it's not his training or personality), then with their words, their silence, a withholding of affection, or of using any kind of influence they have to make you pay. Men don't "sob"-- even with Sherlock's dead, bloody body sprawled out on the sidewalk in front of him, having actually seen him fall, John didn't cry. He bluffed his way into the crowd, "He's my best friend! I'm a doctor!" In other words, let me through! And only then did the soft groaning start, and he began to get weak in the knees. Men don't like feeling helpless-- it's in their biological make-up to fix things and to make it right, and poor John couldn't do either. Later on, there were tears in the cemetery, when he was alone (he thought), well after he'd had time to think about what had happened and meet with the psychologist, who would have been trying to get him to admit Sherlock was dead, actually feel his feelings about it, deal with his anger, etc. At the actual suicide scene, though, after seeing the fall and the blood, and when the shock started to hit him, John had no tears. I think at that point, he was still hoping against hope it was just another one of Sherlock's wonderful and annoying tricks. The show-runners didn't let us see what happened after they took Sherlock's body into St. Bart's, but I can imagine that John trailed along after them-- he was always moving in Sherlock's wake and had since they'd met!-- still hopeful and probably still not crying. Not at that point.

Gee, that was a long paragraph. Sorry. What I mean to say is, when Sherlock pops up alive in John's face one day, John will do first things first-- and I imagine, in his male-ness, the first thing will be fury and very probably an attempt to strike out in some way, fists, words, etc. We're not always our best selves when in pain, surprised, and scared to death.

imane nikko · June 26, 2012 2:15 am

I'm not sure I buy such reductive stereotypes of men and women and their reactions to emotion... but if it was not clear from my post, I don't actually expect John to cry. I'm not even sure I expect anger. I really don't know what to expect, but when I took the thread consensus/hope and averaged it with *my* likely reaction, I got an image that amused me.

The Skull · June 26, 2012 9:15 am

So, when Sherlock returns, I would think John's first reaction would be relief. After all, his life was pretty dull before Sherlock came around. And Sherlock not being dead was his biggest wish, standing by that tombstone. But after he gets over that, he's going to be pretty mad.
Here's the scene in my head:
John, staring at Sherlock, can't quite believe his eyes. Realization sets in, his face hardens, he turns around and walks away.
Sherlock: "John!"
John keeps walking, a little faster.
Sherlock has no choice. He follows him. "John, wait!"
John abruptly turns around, hits Sherlock in the face.
John: "I THOUGHT YOU WERE DEAD! I THOUGHT-"
Sherlock attempts to explain through the pain of a bleeding nose. Finally (maybe a few days later) Sherlock gets a text.
So you're not dead. Let's have dinner. -JW
(Honestly no idea about the ending, just thought I'd throw that line in. Also, the dialogue here isn't great, but hopefully it makes sense.)

Last edited by The Skull (June 26, 2012 11:19 am)

KeepersPrice · June 27, 2012 6:51 pm

I found it! I found it!. For all us emotional sentimental slobs out there here's a clip from a movie with Martin Freeman showing a wonderful reaction when he opens a gift - at around "33" on the video. Perhaps a hint of what we might see in John's reaction to Sherlock being alive? (Don't kill me Kazza! ) This is just for fun.

Emotional Reaction Exemplified

Davina · June 27, 2012 7:20 pm

Aww! That's really sweet and great acting from Mr. F.

ancientsgate · June 27, 2012 9:17 pm

KeepersPrice wrote:
I found it! I found it!. For all us emotional sentimental slobs out there here's a clip from a movie with Martin Freeman showing a wonderful reaction when he opens a gift - at around "33" on the video. Perhaps a hint of what we might see in John's reaction to Sherlock being alive? (Don't kill me Kazza! ) This is just for fun.

Emotional Reaction Exemplified

I sat here and cried. *sniff* Is it okay if I sat here and cried? OMG.

The people, whoever they are, watching from the doorway? That's the TV audience.

And imagine tall Sherlock instead of that woman, them standing in the yard at Christmastime-- maybe that's at John's sister's house or something, and Sherlock shows up, melting out of the bushes lining the yard. So sweet, that performance, the kiss, the alternating emotions. Lovely. "I should knock you down, you stupid git, after what you put me through. Do you know how I cried? How I couldn't even talk about you or us or any of it to anyone? How I couldn't go back to Baker Street, lie in our bed, watch telly there, anything, for months? Do you know what you put me through?"

*sniff*

Last edited by ancientsgate (June 27, 2012 9:40 pm)

tobeornot221b · June 27, 2012 9:23 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
And imagine tall Sherlock instead of that woman, them standing in the yard at Christmastime-- maybe that's at John's sister's house or something, and Sherlock shows up, melting out of the bushes lining the yard. So sweet, that performance, the kiss, the alternating emotions. Lovely. "I should you knock you down, you stupid git, after what you put me through. Do you know how I cried? How I couldn't even talk about you or us or any of it to anyone? How I couldn't go back to Baker Street, lie in our bed, watch telly there, anything, for months? Do you know what you put me through?"

*sniff*

Do you mind me joining you?
*brings chocolate and shock blankets*

ancientsgate · June 27, 2012 9:39 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
ancientsgate wrote:
And imagine tall Sherlock instead of that woman, them standing in the yard at Christmastime-- maybe that's at John's sister's house or something, and Sherlock shows up, melting out of the bushes lining the yard. So sweet, that performance, the kiss, the alternating emotions. Lovely. "I should you knock you down, you stupid git, after what you put me through. Do you know how I cried? How I couldn't even talk about you or us or any of it to anyone? How I couldn't go back to Baker Street, lie in our bed, watch telly there, anything, for months? Do you know what you put me through?"

*sniff*
Do you mind me joining you?
*brings chocolate and shock blankets*

God, yeah. Plenty of room. *pushes over*

deerstalker · June 27, 2012 10:26 pm

Big question that, isn't it?
I think the way John reacts to Sherlock in a very large part would depend on the State of Sherlock. In the Canon, Watson observes that Sherlock is thin and sallow and the life he led had not been healthy. Will Moftiss choose to make anything of it, or mostly ignore it?
If Sherlock is indeed in bad shape, I imagine all John's instincts of a friend and a doctor kick in. If Sherlock is fine, I personally hope that John learns to live, work and love on his own for a couple of episodes. Would serve Sherlock right for lying ( whatever justification he had). The amount of time that passes between the "death" and the Big Reveal would be absolutely crucial.
The fact that they film season 3 starting January probably means nothing to the plot ( I bet it's all about actor availability), but IF they indeed show it's winter, that means the action is either 6-7 months or 1 1/2 years later. In "The Empty House" the action is in the spring, late March.
Considering that Martin Freeman makes John impatient and rather volatile at times, I think some kind of a blow-up is imminent. And I am sooooo looking forward to it.

Last edited by deerstalker (June 28, 2012 4:53 am)