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June 22, 2018 5:46 am  #8161


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

@Vhanja Well, at least in terms of a TV show- yes! 


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June 22, 2018 7:42 am  #8162


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think the writer was making the point that TJLC is/was a lot more fun and positive (and maybe sometimes tongue-in-cheek?) than it seems from the outside.  I think, as an outsider, I was influenced a lot by Rebekah's videos which were posted here - some of the people there seemed to have so much of their own identity and self-worth invested in Johnlock, and it did seem concerning, knowing that the outcome was not likely to be what they expected.  The writer does say that some people were harmed by it, but it's good to know that it was so positive for the vast majority.

I do really like the article and especially the bit on the various types of theories: it links through to this https://sherlock-overflow-error.tumblr.com/post/155539017258/the-six-thatchers-survival-pack-version-20 to demonstrate the range of different theories after each S4 episode aired.  I can see how it would be a lot of fun to look for clues and discuss all this stuff!  The trouble for me, personally, is that I can't make myself believe the writers would write it this way, and I do feel that all the "theory" ignores the bigger picture.   

Take the "drinks code" for example, which the writer has down as circumstantial evidence.  I can see the fun in looking for patterns, and trying to fit them to the theory.  But there doesn't seem to be any real basis for the theory in the first place, does there?  And it doesn't make sense that Moftiss would give information in this way. 

 

 

June 22, 2018 7:42 pm  #8163


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

The thing is that Steven Moffat himself said - I searched for the exact quote but could not find it - something about drinking having a certain meaning in the show. I know for sure that I read it and I suspect it might have been the starting point for the drinks theory. I will add the quote as soon as I find it. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

June 22, 2018 8:17 pm  #8164


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, I remember having read something like that myself. I think that quote was also the basis for some fans thinking that John had an alcohol problem, which also made it's way into quite a few fanfics. I personally have never seen John as having an alcohol problem (which again shows you just how easily it is to have different interpretations of the show).


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http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 22, 2018 8:21 pm  #8165


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

There was a link in the link you posted to this: http://inevitably-johnlocked.tumblr.com/post/166003660139/not-a-question-but-ive-just-read-a-discussion .

But that's just a quote from the ASIB commentary where they are laughing and joking about it.  And they're talking about alcohol really, rather than hot drinks.  I have to say that what John's drinking is odd, though.  It looks like a wine bottle, but a whisky tumbler, and the drink itself doesn't look like either!  Dubonnet is mentioned (and Ribena!). 

 

June 23, 2018 7:28 am  #8166


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh, that's where the quote is from? It seems like they are joking to me. 

I would assume that what John was drinking in ASiB was whisky, due to the tumbler. Whisky comes in various shades of yellow/orange/gold. Could of course also be brandy/cognac. 

Last edited by Vhanja (June 23, 2018 7:29 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 23, 2018 8:10 am  #8167


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't know if it's the lighting or my screen but the liquid looks brown to me.  It doesn't look much like whisky and I think the portion is too big for whisky, brandy or cognac!  I think the colour might have been why Dubonnet was mentioned.  Or maybe another brownish fortified wine - tawny port, sherry, madeira? The choice of tumbler is odd for all of those.  I don't know if any eagle eyed people can identify the bottle?

 

June 23, 2018 12:53 pm  #8168


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Do you have a screenshot?


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 23, 2018 5:45 pm  #8169


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I'm the worst person to ask for pictures!  Let's see if this works:

http://i67.tinypic.com/5egwag.png


Not Dubonnet, anyway.  I think Dubonnet has a red foil top.

Last edited by Liberty (June 23, 2018 5:49 pm)

 

June 24, 2018 6:45 am  #8170


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I had no idea people were referencing the commentary...once again, does humour not cross cultures or something?  They are clearly having a laugh!
Maybe folks just don't get Mark and Steven's subtle wit! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/stoned.png


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June 24, 2018 7:21 am  #8171


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't know - it doesn't seem to translate well.  And I think that's sometimes in the show as well - that things that are humorous are taken seriously.  I don't know if that's more common outside the UK?  Maybe it also goes along with the seriousness not translating too.  I'm thinking of that Mumbai interview, where people thought Mark was lying.  Somehow the tone is not always coming across.

I'm still curious about what John's drinking, though, and I will happily concede that what we're shown is an odd choice.  In a bachelor flat like that it would be possible that they just didn't own wine glasses and so John is using a tumbler for wine.  But I'm sure there are wine glasses visible at other times (Christmas party?). 

 

June 24, 2018 7:23 am  #8172


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I find things like the Mumbai experience so hurtful...a rare moment the guy actually opens his heart and he has it ripped from him, stomped on and thrown back in his face- charming.


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June 24, 2018 10:17 am  #8173


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh, now I see the picture. I don't remember this particular scene, when was this? I remember John having a tumbler while sitting and reading, waiting for Sherlock to come back. ("danger night"), during Christmas and New Year's Eve. I can't recall that particular moment from that screenshot.

It looks very much like red wine, though. The bottle and the liquid itself.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 24, 2018 11:10 am  #8174


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think the bottle and the liquid do look like red wine that picture, but fortified wines can have similar bottles.  Maybe it's just my PC, but later the liquid looks more brown.  And then later still it's more of a pinkish colour - it actually looks more like a blackcurrant squash (Ribena was the other drink mentioned!).  It might that it changes with the lighting, or might be a continuity error.

Why would he drink wine out of a tumbler, when they have wine glasses?  Wine also isn't a traditional drink for Hogmanay (which I think might be why some people are seeing whisky, although the colour looks a bit too dark to me). 

The scene is the one at New Year, when John asks if Sherlock will be seeing Irene again (it's shortly after the Battersea scene), and he plays Auld Lang Syne. 

 

June 24, 2018 12:05 pm  #8175


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Port, perhaps? That ca be served in a different type of glass.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 24, 2018 12:07 pm  #8176


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That was my thought...only cos Brian used to drink it.


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June 24, 2018 12:50 pm  #8177


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, I'd mentioned port, and some sherries have that brown colour too, but they don't tend to served in a tumbler. (I don't know if any of the fortified wines are? Being stronger, they tend to be in smaller glasses, if anything). They also don't morph into that pink colour in the later shots! 

Maybe it's, for some reason, a deliberately unidentifiable drink?  The odd choice of glass, the front of the bottle turned away, the changing colour?  

 

June 24, 2018 8:58 pm  #8178


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Maybe it was just ice tea? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

June 25, 2018 6:02 am  #8179


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Here's hoping!


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June 25, 2018 6:25 am  #8180


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

The drinks code would have to be rewritten!

 

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