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April 30, 2017 9:45 pm  #7661


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

No, they did it because they didn't write it with Sherlock and John as a couple.


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April 30, 2017 10:11 pm  #7662


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo wrote:

There are different versions:

http://www.sherlockian-sherlock.com/baker-street-221-b-floor-plan.php

And the Canon stories are not even consistent about the placement of Sherlock's room. Btw, I really like the door between their bedrooms in the 1948 plan. 

The door is great. :-D


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

April 30, 2017 10:16 pm  #7663


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And since we are talking about the layout of the flat - never forget the semi-transparent bathroom door in Sherlock's bedroom. An original invention of Arwel Wyn Jones if I am not mistaken. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 30, 2017 10:21 pm  #7664


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, it us a great detail. Completely unnecessary to use a door like that, something invented for the show.

There must be a good reason for that choice other than Johnlock.

I just can't think of one. :-D


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 1, 2017 6:05 am  #7665


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, such a door could have been used to make the best of the bedroom's natural light in a room with no windows.


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

May 1, 2017 6:44 am  #7666


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

ewige wrote:

Well, such a door could have been used to make the best of the bedroom's natural light in a room with no windows.

In real life, sure. But why chose it for a TV show?


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 1, 2017 7:07 am  #7667


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, obviously not for Johnlock reasons!  I do find the bedroom on another floor a bit odd - I'm so used to Victorian flats which are all on one floor.   But maybe the idea was that it was originally built as one house, and then the rooms were let out? 

Why do you think there has never been an adaptation which shows them as lovers, despite it being a popular concept?   (Maybe there has ... but I remember reading that if they were lovers in S4 it would be the first time - hence "groundbreaking").   Is it because people are in love with the friendship?  I suppose Jenny and Vastra (Doctor Who) are lovers, but they are side characters in another show, rather than main characters in a Sherlock Holmes adaptation).  They have been lovers in print, haven't they, so it's just on screen?

 

May 1, 2017 7:24 am  #7668


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Although on the one hand, I love doors...so find this discussion mildly interesting. On the other hand I am laughing, this is what we've come to?  Discussing doors!
Anyhow...
Yes, as I'm sure Mycroft, Sherlock and possibly even John would agree, the most obvious answer is the logical one: opaque glass, for some privacy but also to make use of extra light.


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May 1, 2017 10:59 am  #7669


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

ewige wrote:

Well, such a door could have been used to make the best of the bedroom's natural light in a room with no windows.

I don't know about the UK regulations, but in Norway you can't use a room as a bedroom if it doesn't have a window (and the window needs to be large enough for a person to be able to climb out due to fire hazard). 

Well, no one can check if you use it, but when you sell/rent out a falt, you can't advertise such a room as a bedroom.


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Team Hudders!
 
 

May 1, 2017 11:05 am  #7670


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

There are similar rules here: all upstairs rooms have to have opening windows...I always thought there was a window in Sherlock's room but I may have got that wrong...likewise I thought possibly in the hall between his room and the kitchen, but again I think I'm wrong on that.
I don't know what the rules are regarding existing buildings, where it isn't possible to place a window...
I've just asked my hubby and he seems to be kind of agreeing with you, Vhanja.
If you want to use that room as a bedroom, that's up to you: but certainly in selling or renting, you wouldn't be able to describe it as a bedroom.
So Mrs H could be in trouble, except presumably Sherlock wasn't bothered!
I've just googled for images of Sherlock's bedroom...there definitely is a window!
On the right, when you come through the door. It will overlook Speedy's back yard! 

Last edited by besleybean (May 1, 2017 11:08 am)


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May 1, 2017 11:12 am  #7671


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh, I mean the bathroom has no window and would profit from the bedroom's natural light.

Of course Sherlock's bedroom has a window. Duh.


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

May 1, 2017 11:17 am  #7672


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh I see, sorry.
That was me not only misunderstanding, but in fact getting it completely the wrong way around!
Yes it's quite common for bathrooms not to have windows, though they then often have some kind of fan system...
This for me is now turning into an interesting discussion of both building regs and fire escape routes!
Because, would you then have to have two exits from a bathroom with no window?
Because what if one way is blocked by fire?!
Oh I suppose you would just have to cover yourself in a soaked towel and run through the affected area!


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May 1, 2017 12:53 pm  #7673


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But Sherlock and John are a "couple."   Even more so by the end of S4.  Things have been left open ended once again but they pointedly included a scene of the boys sharing a moment with Rosie.

PARENTLOCK! 


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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

May 1, 2017 1:05 pm  #7674


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Exactly. And I still wonder about this phrase of Mary's: 

I know you two; and if I’m gone, I know what you could become.

What is there they could become and therefore have not been before (that is friends, partners, best friends, family)? 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (May 1, 2017 1:06 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 1, 2017 1:12 pm  #7675


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo wrote:

Exactly. And I still wonder about this phrase of Mary's: 

I know you two; and if I’m gone, I know what you could become.

What is there they could become and therefore have not been before (that is friends, partners, best friends, family)? 
 

Exactly!  We were told explicitly that John IS FAMILY.  We are shown John and Shelrock's relationship completely mended and them acting as a solid unit.  Then at the end we are shown BOTH of them parenting Rosie.
It is left open as to whether or not John and Sherlock inter into a physical relationship, but by this point that is the only thing missing from the picture.
 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

May 1, 2017 1:29 pm  #7676


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I could not agree more. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 1, 2017 2:57 pm  #7677


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Of course anything could happen, but I don't even think it's hinted at, to be honest.  S4 clears up the whole thing, just as Moftiss said. 

But your points:
I think "family" means like a brother - the other family member who is present.  And Mycroft takes that on board, and in the end is willing to sacrifice himself.  I don't think it means John is Sherlock's potential lover.  For one thing, if they can openly say that John = husband, then why can't they acknowledge those feelings for each other in any other way?

Sherlock has already vowed to be involved in bringing Rosie up and protecting her, and was doing that while Mary was around. 

And what they could become - I think it's meant to mean the heroes of legend.  We've seen all their flaws and weaknesses over the course of the show, and this is where they transition into Holmes and Watson (and obviously not Holmes, Watson and Watson! )

I've been watching the new Doctor Who series, and it reminded me of all the drama at SDCC, when Moftiss were talking about LGBT representation and some people thought they were confirming Johnlock.  It did sound at the time as if they were talking more about Doctor Who, so it's interesting to see that right from the first episode of the new series we're shown an explicitly lesbian main character.  If they wanted to show it, they'd have shown it.  I don't think they're meaning to leave it as ambiguous (although obviously, it's fine to speculate!).
 

 

May 1, 2017 3:19 pm  #7678


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Couldn't agree more, Liberty and I still say John is just visiting with Rosie.


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May 1, 2017 3:30 pm  #7679


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

tonnaree wrote:

But Sherlock and John are a "couple."   Even more so by the end of S4.  Things have been left open ended once again but they pointedly included a scene of the boys sharing a moment with Rosie.

PARENTLOCK! 

I couldn't agree more! For me, it is clear that the three of them are living together, and the happiness they are emanating is obvious.

And I frankly don't care if others need to interpret that as brotherly love. If you want to see it that way, go ahead and do so. If the thought of John and Rosie just coming to visit makes you happy, that's fine.

For me, it is more and will always be because I see it AND because it makes me happy. No discussion about doors will change that. ;-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 1, 2017 3:32 pm  #7680


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I see it as Sherlock keeping his promises to both John and Mary and supporting his best friend who he considers to be a brother.


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