I'm glad the fandom got a chance to stop being so divided. I hope it happens. TFP is in my eyes the confirmation that every reading is valid and valuable. It's all in there and we can do with it as we please.


PS: I know you two. And if I'm gone, I know what you two can become because I know who you really are: a junkie who solves crimes to get high and a doctor who never came home from the war. Well you listen to me: who you really are - it doesn't matter. It's all about the legend, the stories, the adventures.

Mary is talking about something they can become. They are best friends and colleagues already so she means something more - a romantic relationship. Mary is the only one not blind there, apparently (yep, and Mrs. Hudson too on occasion).

However, then Moftiss hijacks the broadcast and tells us that it's not a romcom where we get love confessions five times a week. The show is not about that. Okay, I believe them now. They have seriously added enough canon for all shippers and non-shippers alike now to do with it what they like - because the show is "about the legend, the stories, the adventures." It's their softly, softly approach: it's fine if Sherlock and John get romantically involved at some point, but it's not treated as something that needs explanation or a special dispensation. If it happens, it just is.

I understand that this solution might be a let down for many fans, but it's perfectly in style with their "How he did it" reveal in TEH: you can connect the points any way you like.

I thought it would be cool for the show to be a LGBT flagship but I see now that it hasn't been the plan. TFP and especially these few words of Mary's have actually explained and summed up the whole show really neatly in this regard: it can be read in many romantic ways but romance is not really its genre.
 

Last edited by ewige (January 16, 2017 5:08 am)

ewige wrote:

Oh, it's also been a great ep for Sherlolly shippers too.
So Moftiss delivered on all accounts, actually.

Sherlolly shippers should watch the Behind the Scenes for The Final Problem, for something a little bit hopeful!  (Benedict: "Does that mean I love Molly Hooper?  I don't think I've made that decision yet".  Kind of cute the way Benedict refers to Sherlock in the first person!). 
 

Last edited by Liberty (January 16, 2017 9:41 am)

Liberty wrote:

ewige wrote:

Oh, it's also been a great ep for Sherlolly shippers too.
So Moftiss delivered on all accounts, actually.

Sherlolly shippers should watch the Behind the Scenes for The Final Problem, for something a little bit hopeful!  (Benedict: "Does that mean I love Molly Hooper?  I don't think I've made that decision yet".  Kind of cute the way Benedict refers to Sherlock in the first person!). 
 

Amazon is being difficult, I hope the BTS footage will be included in the UK Steelbox too!

besleybean wrote:

I take it at the end John was just visiting 221B, he still seems to have his own house.
On the suggestion of Sherlock having had sex, I took it to be with IRENE, not John or Molly!
Also, Sherlock claims John as family( that was the first point in the cinema audience we all said 'Aw' together and there were lots of those moments!). I take it Sherlock is claiming him as an honorary brother. 

I think all of the above is open to interpretation.

On one hand, I don't think John would stay at his and Mary's house (how is he supposed to pay the rent and look after Rosie?). On the other hand, we see Sherlock's violin in its opened case in the scene with Rosie, and I don't think I'd have left my Stradivarius in the action radius of a toddler! But it's Sherlock, maybe he already teaches Rosie how to play, and besides, there's not much difference between live-in and visiting toddlers in this regard anyway.

When Eurus asks Sherlock whether he's had sex, it can't be based on the melody itself: Sherlock wrote it before he could have gone anywhere with Irene. So it must be how he plays it, which doesn't need to be connected with Irene, actually. I'm also not sure whether Eurus asks in general or about recent history. Her own attempt looked like both but wasn't really what anybody would describe as sex... So in the end, she probably asks Sherlock if he understands what the whole process is about since he writes such music. So it's probably a general question, not about recent events.

John as the honorary brother... well. God beware normal people from being mistaken for one of the Holmes children! :D
I think this exchange didn't mean to establish John's place on the genealogic tree of the Holmses but rather confirms that the ease and trust between Sherlock and John are back. Sherlock wants John to be there for any and all revelations, just as John asks Sherlock to come over to watch the DVD together. Must be a side-effect of crying in each other's arms in TLD

Liberty wrote:

I don't think Mary's words are anything to do with Sherlock and John having a romantic relationship.   I think it's about becoming the men of the books/the Rathbone films (yes, it's a bit "meta"!).  Steven kind of confirmed that that was what would happened next at the BFI screening. 

I know which part of the Q&A you are referring to. However, I don't seem to understand the crucial difference between the Rathbone films and the BBC version. When Steven says it's been a prequel of sorts, does he mean the next season (IF it happens) won't be dealing with Sherlock's feelings and emotions at all? Like, because he is a baked out person by the end of S4? My problem with this ties into our recent discussion about people maturing during their whole lives and not only until a certain point.
This is why I don't see how Mary could be saying "you both will be done with your emotional struggles and go on simply solving crimes together" as something new and different compaired to what John and Sherlock had before she entered their lives. It's a step backwards for me, not forward.

PS: And there I thought there was nothing more to discuss after TFP!!!

But I loved my conflicted Sherlock! *stomps foot*

No seriously. His internal conflicts and the process of integrating his humanity is what got me hooked. (Ben's stunning looks didn't hurt either.) I know that Moftiss would do someting great if they ever decide to do more, but I'll miss that.

Irene - I really hate being so conflicted about my two favorite pairings! Irene is better for Sherlock's brain while John is better for Sherlock's heart. Both could work romantically but would involve a certain twisting on the participants' part (seeing how supposedly neither Irene nor John are interested in men). While both pairings had been happily co-existing in my mind up until TFP, TFP made my enjoyement of both diminish greatly because they feel more mutually exclusive now.

besleybean wrote:

I think Sherlock gets to choose his romantic partner, not us.
Sherlock clearly chooses Irene.
Well, at least to text at the moment.

He doesn't need to text John because he's got him right there.
 

Vhanja wrote:

I am actually wondering if the writers are toying with the idea of Sherlolly. In the end montage we see Sherlock texting "You know where to find me" to someone, and just a few seconds later we see Molly coming through the door with a huge grin on her face.

There's enough room left for Sherlolly, Sherlock/Irene, johnlock and even Mystrade there!

Tilly noticed on the other thread that the text is identical to the one Sherlock sent Greg in ASIP. So it's probably addressed to Greg, seeing how 221b is being restored and becomes the place you can find Sherlock Holmes at again.

Also, seeing how Sherlock is advised to text Irene back after all, it could have been a text to her. We'll never know. This is actually what makes me so sure all possibilities have been deliberately left open since the show's not about Sherlock's sex life after all.

To me the implication is that Sherlock had sex with Irene at least once, probably on that night of hot passion in Karachi, that Benedict once mentioned.
He has never had sex with John and shows no inclination to do so.

I think the text was to Greg too.  But I felt Benedict's comment really left Sherlolly open - that is just his interpretation, not the writers, though.  But Mark said something along the lines of us not being sure if he means it or not ("I love you").  And Benedict kind of said that he hadn't decided yet ... so it is kind of open for S5, which actually surprises me.  I've never really seen them as a couple because it feels too one-sided.   But I thought the scene was lovely, actually.  Loo said she likes that Molly makes Sherlock say it first.  It looks to me as if just for a moment, she has the pleasure of hearing it.   And I do think she's brave to admit that she really does love him.   My feeling is that he doesn't love her in that way, but he does care for her, so there is genuine feeling in the "I love you".  Sorry, this is a bit OT for here - maybe we need a Sherlolly thread!

As for Irene, I think she has her place as that symbol of romantic yearning for Sherlock.   I don't see her being Sherlock's girlfriend in S5.   I don't see him having a girlfriend (or boyfriend) until maybe later in life.   But that's just now ... it could be that by the time S5 comes round (if it does), Moftiss are writing about a different version of Sherlock.  I do feel that at the moment they've left it much as it is in the books - John is bereaved, Sherlock thinks about The Woman, but doesn't date, Mrs Hudson, Mycroft and Lestrade are alive and well (I worried!), etc.

 

Babies are always adorable!

Well those are two options, are suppose there are others.
But if Sherlock was to be interested in anyone, it would be a woman.
He's never been shown to be in anyway romantically attracted to a man.