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January 9, 2017 2:04 am  #7301


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I thought the episode was perfect for Johnlock in almost every single subtextual way.
Even ended with a Garridebs cliffhanger.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 9, 2017 2:07 am  #7302


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Oh, right! Now Sherlock only needs to move from 221B to the therapist's place faster than the bullet hits John.
I finally understand why we needed the laws-defying scene with Mary jumping in front of the bullet in TST: Moftiss wanted to set up a precedent! :D


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." Context matters.
 

January 9, 2017 2:11 am  #7303


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

yeps !


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 9, 2017 8:50 am  #7304


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

I think the moment that sort of sealed it to me (that it won't happen) was John pushing Sherlock towards Irene.

He knew that love didn't last. People die, horribly and unexpectedly. And you need to grasp the opportunities you have for love, because you are lucky if you get them. With such a mindset, it would make sense for John to pursue Sherlock, if he felt like it. Instead, he pushed Sherlock towards Irene so that he could also experience love.

Yes, that's a good point.  Especially given that he had lost Mary, and almost lost Sherlock to Culverton just recently.  This was absolutely the point for them to get together, if it was ever going to happen. 

And I thought the hug was platonic - and absolutely lovely! 

I'm thinking of TAB flagging up that Sherlock did still have romantic feelings for Irene too.  I don't see them ever being together as a couple, but it looks like this is the little bit of "romance" that Sherlock will allow himself - a few texts. 

I think that with only one episode to go, they can't just change everything around and make Sherlock and John get together.   There isn't enough time to build that up.  
 

 

January 9, 2017 12:56 pm  #7305


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I just want to add that Mary, who was part of John's psyche said to him, he should go on with his new love interest.

But people who want to believe, will believe and it's the reason why I won't loose time on writing metas about them not being gay.

The poem. http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=278575#p278575
Maybe they used it to try to end the debate (and failed again :D ), saying that this kind of love is so unique that it doesn't fit into ANY definition. It is what it is.
Like in this nice article
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindbloggling/201405/the-hidden-meaning-it-is-what-it-is

 

January 9, 2017 1:05 pm  #7306


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I seem to have heard "It is what it is" a lot recently (in real life), unfortunately.  It has been used about unhappy, difficult situations which must be endured.   I feel that that's the meaning in TLD. 

"No, I'm not OK.  I'm never going to be OK.  We just have to accept that.   It is what it is.  And what it is, is ... shit."

 

January 9, 2017 2:02 pm  #7307


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

It's a bit of Zen approach. If you cannot change the situation, it doesn't help if you dwell on it being shit. There is a nice story about it, but I'll have to do some digging, as I don't know the english version.

 

January 9, 2017 2:05 pm  #7308


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That was quick, Google loves me ;-)

The story is of an old farmer in a remote village in China. He was the only man in the whole area who was given a horse to help work the fields.
“This is good!” said the neighbors.
“Maybe good, maybe bad,” replied the farmer, “It just is.”
One day, the horse got free and ran away.
“This is bad!” cried the neighbors.
“Maybe good, maybe bad,” replied the farmer, “It just is.”
Adjusting to work without the horse, everyone was surprised when a few days later the horse returned, bringing another horse with him.
“This is good!” exclaimed the neighbors.
“Maybe good, maybe bad,” replied the farmer, “It just is.”
Hoping to train the new horse, the old farmer’s son got up to ride the horse and fell and broke his leg.
“This is bad!” cried the neighbors.
“Maybe good, maybe bad,” replied the farmer, “It just is.”
The very next day, the Chinese government sent officers to the small farming village to conscript all the young men into service to fight a terrible war.
The farmer’s son was the only young man spared, since his leg was broken and he could not fight.
“This is good!” exclaimed the neighbors.

“Maybe good, maybe bad,” replied the farmer, “It just is.”

And so it goes…

Source:
http://www.bluelotusnc.com/it-is-what-it-is/
 

 

January 9, 2017 3:26 pm  #7309


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

The more I think about this, the more content I am with the comforting hug, Johnlock-wise.

Because not only did I never think we would get any Johnlock in the show, neither did I think we would even get as much as this. Because I thought the show, and the boys, would be way too stoic and "stiff upper-lip" for any kind of physical display of caring.

So, yes, I am content with what the series has given us. If it ends next episode - and as long as it ends with Sherlock and John as close friends still - I will be happy.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

January 9, 2017 4:12 pm  #7310


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That's good!  It will be great if it's an outcome everybody is happy with.   Certainly from a friendship point of view, the hug was just wonderful.  Not something you imagine them ever doing often, but the time was right.   And I suppose this episode in particular has shown how their relationship can develop and change, and tell a story.  It doesn't have to be "a romance".

I just don't understand how people can be expecting that a Johnlock "end game" and kiss is going to happen in the next episode, though.  It seems such a long shot. 

 

January 9, 2017 4:15 pm  #7311


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty wrote:

I just don't understand how people can be expecting that a Johnlock "end game" and kiss is going to happen in the next episode, though.  It seems such a long shot. 

Me neither. But then, I am sure that we will get S5 at least. :-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 9, 2017 4:30 pm  #7312


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Fingers crossed!

 

January 9, 2017 4:54 pm  #7313


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think this is our lot, at least as far as whole series are concerned.
For me that rules out Johnlock, though of course I never saw it anyway.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 9, 2017 5:06 pm  #7314


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I hope there is a series 5 but even if there is I'm not sure they would have Johnlock confirmed as whilst some subtext could be argued as Johnlock and I've read theories that sound plausible I don't think there has been anything on screen that would lead the casual viewer (which makes up a huge portion of viewers) to think Johnlock is something that is going to happen so if it did happen a large part of the audience would be confused which is obviously not something Mofftiss want.

Last edited by Lis (January 9, 2017 5:07 pm)


                                                                                                                      

All lives end. All hearts are broken. Caring is not an advantage.

 

January 9, 2017 5:10 pm  #7315


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think even Mrs Hudson has stopped shipping them now!  And there have been no more of the "jokes". 

I agree, Lis.  They are storytellers, and they haven't been telling that story, certainly not in any way that the casual viewer could see. 

 

January 9, 2017 6:53 pm  #7316


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty wrote:

I think even Mrs Hudson has stopped shipping them now!  And there have been no more of the "jokes". 

Yeah, by TEH, Moftiss said that the joke was getting old, so they stopped doing it from then on out.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

January 9, 2017 6:59 pm  #7317


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Sometimes it's like 2 parallel universes operate on this forum!
Ha.  But yes.  Mrs H knows Sherlock and John are the best of friends and need each other for that.  But he also knows John has just lost the love of his life.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 9, 2017 7:27 pm  #7318


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

At least it should put paid to the "queerbaiting" accusations.  I think they could hardly be more clear about what kind of love is between John and Sherlock. 
 

 

January 9, 2017 7:29 pm  #7319


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

Sometimes it's like 2 parallel universes operate on this forum!

Not just the forum, the whole fandom. But thank good I think we can all agree that they are soul mates. They love and need each other. And if all goes well and the wind stands fair, we will leave them the way we should: side by side, in 221B, solving crimes. And whether you want to call that a romance or a friendship will be entirely up to you.

Last edited by Lola Red (January 9, 2017 7:30 pm)


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

January 9, 2017 7:30 pm  #7320


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I have always confessed that at the very beginning I felt there might be a little confusion.
But certainly for me by TBB, it was clear:  no Johnlock.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

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