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October 13, 2016 12:19 pm  #7021


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

I believe the creators when they said that fans were free to see the show how they wanted, but they had not written Sherlock and John in a relationship.

I believe what I see. :-)

Besides, they are right, if you will: they have not written Sherlock and John in a relationship YET. ;-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 13, 2016 12:23 pm  #7022


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I stand as firm as the Johnlockers.
I don't see it happening and think the creators have made that pretty clear at every opportunity.
In interviews, on commentaries etc, they have spoken at large about: John and women in general and Mary in particular and Sherlock and his relationships with women...nothing seems to give any credence to Johnlock.


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October 13, 2016 12:32 pm  #7023


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And that is fine, bb. Time will tell anyway - I hope.

I dislike the notion of using the term "the Johnlockers", btw. That's too much generalisation for me. But maybe that's just me.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 13, 2016 12:38 pm  #7024


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I apologise.
Though I actually only meant in terms of anybody standing firm in Johnlock.


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October 13, 2016 12:40 pm  #7025


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

We believe what we see. But what, then, when we see different things?

That is when WoG comes in, to settle the dispute. Or so I see it.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

October 13, 2016 12:46 pm  #7026


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

What's WoG?
I listen to the writers.


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October 13, 2016 12:49 pm  #7027


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

What's WoG?
I listen to the writers.

Word of God.

I wish the show had reliable writers. I would love to be able to believe them from time to time.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 13, 2016 12:51 pm  #7028


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Maybe they do just actually tell the truth.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

October 13, 2016 1:22 pm  #7029


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

Maybe they do just actually tell the truth.

So, are they telling the truth when they say "we lie."?   *giggle*


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

October 13, 2016 1:27 pm  #7030


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That's an interesting question, cos I don't ever think they really do lie.
Steven just seems to like saying that for some reason.
It's like when they say they really shocked us about something and actually they didn't...most of the time, we've worked it out!


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October 13, 2016 1:34 pm  #7031


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't think the lying argument is as valid anymore. Usually it's used whenever Moftiss say something we disagree with, and then their quotes are used as backup for our own views when they say something we agree with. I've seen that done several times.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

October 13, 2016 1:57 pm  #7032


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

I don't think the lying argument is as valid anymore. Usually it's used whenever Moftiss say something we disagree with, and then their quotes are used as backup for our own views when they say something we agree with. I've seen that done several times.

I understand what you mean but that does not change the fact that sometimes they lie and sometimes they don't ans all we can do is DECIDE wgen to believe them. It is unsatisfying imo. I try not to believe them at all but that is almost impossible.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 13, 2016 1:59 pm  #7033


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

They are two of my fave guys, so I tend to hang on every word...plus, they obviously know their own show better than anyone else does.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

October 13, 2016 2:03 pm  #7034


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

They are two of my fave guys, so I tend to hang on every word...plus, they obviously know their own show better than anyone else does.

So, do you believe them when they say they lie? ;-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 13, 2016 2:33 pm  #7035


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I believe them when they say they lie. They lied about TAB, for instance.

However, when they have lied, it's been very different from how they speak about Johnlock.

Also, I don't see it in the show. To me, it's not particular good writing to hide romantic attraction in whomever drink whatever beverage. If Moftiss ever wanted to write Johnlock, they would have done a much better job of it, I think.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

October 13, 2016 2:55 pm  #7036


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I seem to recall Moffat saying something about it being significant when John drinks.  Anyone got links or quotes? 

Not saying he said it meant Johnlock, just that the subject of John drinking was addressed by him somehow.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

October 13, 2016 4:14 pm  #7037


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yeah, wasn't that something about when John drank alcohol? I never understood why, though, because John doesn't seem to be a big drinker to me. He drinks when he is down, but we never see him with more than one glass. He goes out to the pub with Mike Stamford for the occasional beer. And then of course there's the stag night.

But we also see both Mycroft and Sherlock drinking when under great stress.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

October 13, 2016 5:39 pm  #7038


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

Yeah, wasn't that something about when John drank alcohol? I never understood why, though, because John doesn't seem to be a big drinker to me. He drinks when he is down, but we never see him with more than one glass. He goes out to the pub with Mike Stamford for the occasional beer. And then of course there's the stag night.

But we also see both Mycroft and Sherlock drinking when under great stress.

Perhaps the fact that John is not a big drinker is why we should note when he does drink alcohol. 
 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

October 13, 2016 5:50 pm  #7039


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I know Steven himself said there was a subtext about John drinking alcohol. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

October 13, 2016 5:52 pm  #7040


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I've seen him drink alcohol in three different occasions:

1. When under great emotional stress (MHR
2. Seasonal enjoyment (a beer at the Christmas party, a whiskey at New Year's Eve)
3. Social drinking (Stag night and beer at the pub with Mike Stamford)

To me, he seems to have normal relations with alcohol, more so than Sherlock, whom we only see drinking twice in the whole series, and both in not-normal circumstances.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

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