BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean · October 11, 2016 8:01 pm

I don't think we will see it now, I can't see any reason why this would happen.

Vhanja · October 11, 2016 8:08 pm

Me neither. It would be a bit odd, narrative-wise, if it emerged now. It would, for many, be a bit random and out of the blue.

That is why I personally would prefer if they made an ending that would be open to interpretation the way the show has been so far. It would be in line with the tone of the show from the beginning, and it would make everyone (well: many, at least) happy, as those who wanted Johnlock could see it and those who see it can see a happy friendship ending.

GimmeCat · October 11, 2016 11:53 pm

I think that's likely, but I fear the middle-ground ending would end up not really statisfying anyone. It risks feeling too 'safe', IMO.

besleybean · October 12, 2016 6:54 am

I think I could be satisfied with that!

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 4:11 am

GimmeCat wrote:
I think that's likely, but I fear the middle-ground ending would end up not really statisfying anyone. It risks feeling too 'safe', IMO.

Good point.

Regardless of what I'd want, I think that writing it the safe way does not fit with the otherwise rather bold way "Sherlock" is written in general.

Vhanja · October 13, 2016 4:49 am

I'm not talking about writing it safe, but writing it in line with how the show has always been - open for interpretation.

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 5:15 am

I know. I was referring to Gimme's post. :-)

SusiGo · October 13, 2016 7:05 am

Schmiezi wrote:
GimmeCat wrote:
I think that's likely, but I fear the middle-ground ending would end up not really statisfying anyone. It risks feeling too 'safe', IMO.
Good point.

Regardless of what I'd want, I think that writing it the safe way does not fit with the otherwise rather bold way "Sherlock" is written in general.

I agree with both of you. And in the light of Steven's recent heartfelt words at SDCC that LGBT+ representation for young people in media was "important, it is very, very important" I cannot imagine him writing and being responsible for two very, very big TV shows and not including this kind of representation in any of them. And I am speaking about central stories here, about leading characters, not minor characters like the inn keepers in THoB or various characters on Doctor Who. To me a completely open ending where Johnlock is concerned would feel very unsatisfactory and a bit cowardly.

besleybean · October 13, 2016 7:51 am

But with two gay friendly writers and in 21st century London, why not state it right at the start?
They had the opportunity, from the very first trailer, to do exactly that.
Also, why lie in every interview about it?
So does a gay writer have to make every single one of his lead characters gay, just to prove he's PC?
Even when dealing with somebody else's creations?
They make it crystal clear throughout the show and in fact right from the very beginning that they are gay friendly;
"It's fine, by the way".
" I know it's fine".

Last edited by besleybean (October 13, 2016 7:51 am)

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 8:00 am

Why not start from the beginning? Well, imagine "Gone with the Wind" starting with a happy fluffy love story from the beginning. Boring, right? ;-)

SusiGo · October 13, 2016 8:02 am

Saying gay friendly things is not the same as presenting big, interesting LGBT+ characters.

And no, not every single lead character but maybe one or two?

besleybean · October 13, 2016 8:04 am

@Schmiezi No, but then they also didn't show either Rhett or Scarlett to be either celibate or gay and then on the death of the love of their life, suddenly decide they are straight.
@Susi: or possibly just in another show and not this one.

Last edited by besleybean (October 13, 2016 8:05 am)

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 8:09 am

besleybean wrote:
@Schmiezi No, but then they also didn't show either Rhett or Scarlett to be either celibate or gay and then on the death of the love of their life, suddenly decide they are straight.
@Susi: or possibly just in another show and not this one.

Well, they did show Scarlett absolutely unwilling to mate until she needed help withese Tara.

besleybean · October 13, 2016 8:11 am

American society at the time.

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 8:21 am

besleybean wrote:
American society at the time.

Women not wanting to mate? I don’t get your conment, I think.

Vhanja · October 13, 2016 9:13 am

In every movie or series I've seen where two main characters end up in a relationship together, it's always been clear more or less from the start that they have romantic feelings for each other. There are just various emotional or practical reasons for the delay of the (usually) inevitable.

I don't see that type of attraction between Sherlock and John. I want too see it. I wish I saw it. But I don't.

Also, I think it's a bit unfair towards Moftiss to call their writing cowardly (if an open ending is what we get). To me there is a great difference between wanting a particular ending and calling their writing bad names if you don't get that particular ending. The latter is the dark side of this fandom that I personally don't like.

tonnaree · October 13, 2016 12:05 pm

But many people have seen it, from the first episode. Just saying.

besleybean · October 13, 2016 12:08 pm

And many haven't...so where does that leave us?

Schmiezi · October 13, 2016 12:12 pm

It leaves us understanding that the show is made ambiguous on purpose.

Last edited by Schmiezi (October 13, 2016 12:13 pm)

besleybean · October 13, 2016 12:14 pm

I believe the creators when they said that fans were free to see the show how they wanted, but they had not written Sherlock and John in a relationship.