BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty · August 22, 2016 8:05 pm

That's a new perspective for me, Raven. I've been looking at it from the friend point of view, but with Johnlock, yes, I see what you mean. You would think that finding out about Mary's past would be a complete eyeopener for John if he really was in love with Sherlock. There would be no reason for him to stay with her, I think, even if he didn't know if he could be with Sherlock - I think that would swing it. It's kind of difficult to accept even if they're friends!

besleybean · August 22, 2016 8:07 pm

So, does he really love her?

Liberty · August 22, 2016 8:24 pm

Well, I think he must have a burning need to take her back. Even Mary thought that was impossible. So I do think he's got to love her. Don't want to get too far into Mary here, but I hadn't thought too much my view of this changes whether he loves Sherlock or is in love with Sherlock.

RavenMorganLeigh · August 22, 2016 8:25 pm

Vhanja wrote:
No, I was thinking about the dilemma of John marrying the woman who almost killed his best friend.

See, Vhanja-- we do agree on some things. In this I'm firmly with you.

besleybean · August 22, 2016 8:26 pm

@ liberty I honestly don't think it has any bearing on it.
John loves Sherlock no doubt, but as his best friend.
For me, Mary is the love of his life.

Last edited by besleybean (August 22, 2016 8:26 pm)

Vhanja · August 22, 2016 8:43 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
See, Vhanja-- we do agree on some things. In this I'm firmly with you.

I knew we could find common ground.

RavenMorganLeigh · August 22, 2016 8:49 pm

Vhanja wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
See, Vhanja-- we do agree on some things. In this I'm firmly with you.
I knew we could find common ground.

Somebody throw some glitter!!!!

nakahara · August 22, 2016 8:59 pm

RavenMorganLeigh · August 22, 2016 9:06 pm

nakahara wrote:

(Spits glitter out of mouth) Thank you kindly, Nakahara!

Liberty · August 22, 2016 9:18 pm

besleybean wrote:
@ liberty I honestly don't think it has any bearing on it.
John loves Sherlock no doubt, but as his best friend.
For me, Mary is the love of his life.

But if Sherlock is the love of his life, I do think it changes things. (I don't think Sherlock is, but just trying to see the JL point of view).

Schmiezi · August 23, 2016 5:11 am

Just my personal opinion on the slowly burn topic:

In a typical slowly burn romance rhe protagonists' love is usually assymmetrical. That means that they don't both Fall in love St first sight and not at the same time.

In S3, for example, I see John having moved on while Sherlock is in love with him even more than in S2.

And on forgiving Mary: I assume that if John and Sherlock are "only" friends, they are like the closest friends in the world. Hence for me, John's decision to return is un-swallow-able, no matter if there is Johnlock or not.

At that point I'd like to bring your attention to the new thread about the Extended Mind Palace Theory. ;-)

RavenMorganLeigh · August 23, 2016 5:40 am

Schmiezi wrote:
Just my personal opinion on the slowly burn topic:

In a typical slowly burn romance rhe protagonists' love is usually assymmetrical. That means that they don't both Fall in love St first sight and not at the same time.

In S3, for example, I see John having moved on while Sherlock is in love with him even more than in S2.

And on forgiving Mary: I assume that if John and Sherlock are "only" friends, they are like the closest friends in the world. Hence for me, John's decision to return is un-swallow-able, no matter if there is Johnlock or not.

At that point I'd like to bring your attention to the new thread about the Extended Mind Palace Theory. ;-)

Yep-- EMP would make more sense than John forgiving Mary...

besleybean · August 23, 2016 5:58 am

Yes thank you, Schmiezi.
I didn't have time to read the link, so wasn't allowed to take part in the discussion!

Schmiezi · August 23, 2016 6:03 am

besleybean wrote:
Yes thank you, Schmiezi.
I didn't have time to read the link, so wasn't allowed to take part in the discussion!

It really is necessary to read at least some of them. Find some time for it, it is worth it.

besleybean · August 23, 2016 6:14 am

Oops!

Liberty · August 23, 2016 6:52 am

What I meant about John forgiving Mary, was just that if he was in love with Sherlock (more than with Mary), and found out that Mary shot him, then I'd expect it to be a lightbulb moment for him. If they were love rivals for him, then I think it would be very difficult for him to accept Mary back, even if he didn't know what the future was with Sherlock. Why would he want to? (I think it needs the motivation of him being in love with Mary, more than with anyone else, for him to consider it). I think different emotions would be involved. If he's in love with Sherlock, Mary shooting would be a revelation, and kind of a metaphor for what's going on in his heart. I think it would highlight who he really loved - and of course, Mary's deception would mean that he had no oligation to stay. And oddly, if he does stay, it means that he continues to deceive Mary. I think he would leave.

I'm not talking about proof for Johnlock or not, but just about how we see the characters.

Last edited by Liberty (August 23, 2016 6:52 am)

SusiGo · August 23, 2016 6:54 am

I agree. And they took the chance to understand this away from us with the ridiculous time jump. We never see what happens in these months and therefore cannot come to a definite conclusion.

tonnaree · August 23, 2016 11:30 am

It makes sense if John does not truly forgive Mary and has ulterior motives for wanting her to think he does.
This is still within the realm of possibility.

Schmiezi · August 23, 2016 12:06 pm

tonnaree wrote:
It makes sense if John does not truly forgive Mary and has ulterior motives for wanting her to think he does.
This is still within the realm of possibility.

This is what I believe / hope in case that it is all real.

besleybean · August 23, 2016 3:58 pm

Unless I see any evidence for the contrary, I believe the reconciliation was just that.
John loves his wife.