Vhanja wrote:

I agree, Shani (and thank you!). I also fear that it will affect their writing. When they are being accused of putting Johnlock in their to begin with, maybe they won't be as daring and free in the future. Which is the saddest thing in this entire thing to me, because that will undoubtedly affect the quality of the writing.

Well, time will tell us. I think they just created a huge amount of publicity - once more. I wonder of that really makes them suffer. ;-)

Nothing would be better if it didnt'

This pic reminded me of this thread:

I either put in the url in the img-tag, or I do the easy way out and just copy-paste the image itself.

I don't think so. Debate thread means that it's also pro, not just con. Also, I personally hope "the gay" lives on. I hope we still have years to come with Johnlock fanfics and fanart. 

Schmiezi wrote:

Liberty wrote:

And yes, I've worried about how those people will feel after S4. 

 

Why?

A serious question. Why are so many of you worried on the behalf of other fans? To me, it always feels like patronizing them or thinking them unable to deal with reality. That makes me angry but it is hard for me to pinpoint why.

Maybe it is because I am dealing with teenagers on a daily base. I know how strongly they are, and how experiences like losing your favourite ship or your boygroup or whatever only makes you stronger.

Or maybe it is because it does not sound like you consider them being equals. "I worry what they will feel" can imply "I need to worry because they are weak".

My first thought was "Oh dear. Your mothers (or grandmothers) survived that the Beatles Splitter up. Your fellow fans would surely survive Johnlock not happening. Have a little faith in them!"

Sorry, I'm just catching up!  It's not meant to be patronising.  Did you watch the video?  From what the participants were saying, it wasn't just a case of being fans, or having a favourite ship.   They were using TJLC to deal with issues of mental illness and violence, and their own identities and orientation.   A big theme, I felt, was them saying that they only felt OK about themselves because TJLC was going to happen.  There was much more invested in it than just fangirling. 

Mental illness is a very real and common problem for teenagers.  If they're saying openly that TJLC is what they're using to cope, then I do worry.  A lot of them seemed to be hanging their orientation on it as well - because John and Sherlock were going to be a couple, it was OK for them to be LGBT. 

I've been a teenager myself (believe it or not!), and can remember how bloody awful it was at times, and I think these issues are much bigger than just your favourite band splitting up or whatever (although that can be big and emotional, it doesn't reflect on you personally, doesn't define who you are, or your sexuality).   I'm also a parent, and if these people were my children and LGBT, I wouldn't want them to invest in TJLC in this way, and I'd hope that there were better role models out there.  I also think that they are being deceived by the "community".  (And of course, not all of them are in this position, and I'm sure for many, many, it's just a fun thing to get involved with.   Those aren't the ones I'm worried about).

I hope you're right.

(Edited to add: this concern wasn't about fandom in general, or teenagers in general, or Johnlockers in general.  It was about a particular group of people who chose to articulate their feelings on a particular video, and those like them.   I found the video moving, and took the participants' comments seriously (almost to my surprise, because the other videos in the series had felt like a bit of fun).  Until I watched that video, I hadn't realised the part that TJLC was playing in helping people deal with serious and important issues like mental illness, identity and orientation.   I certainly don't think that having problems with those issues is weak, or that finding ways to cope with them is weak, and I don't think anything I said implied that.  Hopefully that makes things clearer ).

Last edited by Liberty (August 2, 2016 8:26 pm)

Shani wrote:

Off topic for a moment but can you tell me how you upload jpegs to your post? Clicking on the image link seems to mean I have to type in a URL and I actually want to upload a picture from my desktop. Sorry to be a technical klutz!

I think you might need to upload to an image hosting site (tinypic, imgur, imageshack - not recommending, just names off the top of my head and I don't know if they even still exist!) first, then use the url it gives you to copy and paste in the image link.  
 

SusiGo wrote:

Mod's note: 
I get the feeling that this is not a balanced debate anymore. We expressly opened three threads and this is not the Anti-Johnlock thread. Discussion is fine, making fun of others' opinions is not. Please post such things in the greatest friendship thread, not in here. Thank you.
 

I'm not sure if this refers to me. My apologies if I've transgressed the rules (On my first day here too! Aargh!) I'm not anti-Johnlock. I like reading fics and am on the shipping side of the fandom - I just don't think it will be part of the show. And it certainly hasn't been my intention to make fun of anyone. I tried to be fair and balanced to both sides when I summed up how I see it all - and pointed out where the creators have behaved problematically, as well as when fans have. Like Liberty, my concern is for the mental health and well being of some of the young TJLCers. I hope that does not sound patronising - it is not my intention to be, nor to make fun of them or anyone else's opinions.

I thought a debate thread would be about a constructive and polite discussion about this topic. I can't personally see how any of the posts here transgress that in any way but please do point them out so I know for future reference. 

Additional mod note:  I think we have gotten off course here.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss why or why not we see johnlock in any of the exsisting Sherlock adaptions.  For the last several pages it's turned into a debate on the mental state of the specific fans who support Johnlock in the BBC series.  As a mod and as a participant I think this is inappropriate, at least in this thread.  If someone wanted to start a new thread about the psychological affects of certain aspects of fandom, feel free.  But I think that this particular conversation needs to stay with talking about if we see Johnlock, or don't, where we see Johnlock and what evidence we think supports it or not.

PS. Regarding Susi's note.  I don't think anyone in particular needs to be called out but the overall tone of the discussion in here has also felt a little bit off to me.  Let's just all take a step back and a big breath and get back to the fun stuff.

EDIT: Susi, we cross posted.

I can only refer the member to my previous post.
Fair enough to a certain point
Could add possibly 'tone' is a personal thing.
Maybe citing certain words would help.
I mean when someone refers to your post as rubbish and accuses you of being harsh, insulting  and rude etc.
They are petty blatant for a mod to address.
That's despite the implication of being homophobic.
 

Last edited by besleybean (August 2, 2016 6:53 pm)