BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

mrshouse · March 13, 2016 3:07 pm

Both scenes you mention serve not the purpose for a joke.
The scene at the pool is a very important moment of bonding in their relationship and it's a moment of very big relief. They have a snigger about having survived that situation together and without harm. That had little to do with being mistaken for a couple.
And don't get me started on that scene from the dance floor.... Oh my, that must be one of the most sad scenes un the whole series, if that was meant in a funny way the creators failed spectacularly. Look at Sherlock's face, look at John glancing back and forth with an air of uncertainty, that is so obviously not made for laughs but for pain and heartbreak.

besleybean · March 13, 2016 3:08 pm

Sherlock is going to miss John, but he acknowledges Mary and actually likes her.

mrshouse · March 13, 2016 3:35 pm

But that is not the point, is it?

besleybean · March 13, 2016 3:36 pm

For me, it is.

mrshouse · March 13, 2016 3:39 pm

But that is a different topic. We were not talking about Mary. We talked about if there is anything in the show which can be considered a "gay joke". I explained why for me the scenes you referred to are not a joke.

Liberty · March 13, 2016 4:09 pm

I don't agree that we need to know if Sherlock is "gay, asexual or a virgin".

I do believe there are very strong hints that he's not asexual (in the sense of not experiencing any sexual feelings or desires).   It looks to me as if the writers do want us to know that he isn't asexual. (But I suppose an argument could be made that he experiences attraction differently?).

HIs sexual orientation is never stated, and I don't think it needs to be. But I do remember Steven Moffat saying that Sherlock would not live with John if he found him attractive in that way (sorry, I can't remember what interview now).   Of course, he could still be gay and not attracted to John (but I'd kind of want to know why not. They have such a powerful connection, that if he was gay, you'd think it might be difficult to avoid it?).

According to Mycroft, Sherlock is a virgin, but I'm not absolutely sure that's true. It's a taunt, and doesn't need to be literal.   Or Sherlock could have done things that Mycroft doesn't know about . Either way, I don't think we need to know.

SusiGo · March 13, 2016 4:40 pm

The most interesting fact about the article is that it is there at all. The German media usually never write about Johnlock. It simply does not exist for them. And if a mainstream publication like Madame perceives this differently and chooses to write about it, it is a little sensation. Maybe not in Britain where Sherlock and John came first in an article on best-loved couples but for German Johnlockers it is exciting.

It is a fact that the article refers to the most hotly discussed elements of the show - the relationship between Sherlock and John and Mary as a villain (not to mention the fall and Mycroft's conspicuous distance from Mary).

besleybean · March 13, 2016 4:43 pm

Of those mentioned, the most pertinent fact for me is Mycroft, which is possibly for another thread.
But it certainly seems Sherlock thinks Mary is working for him.

Mothonthemantel · March 13, 2016 4:59 pm

I agree with Susie. Many main stream media articles and critics are now seriously commenting on the johnlock issue and in many countries and places.. Since S03 and especially TAB it can no longer be ignored by any serious reviewer ,and not because of the fandom , but because of the content.

besleybean · March 13, 2016 7:53 pm

But regardless of what the writers have said?

Mothonthemantel · March 13, 2016 8:49 pm

The writers have said , Sherlock is not straight , Sherlock is not gay , Sherlock is not asexual because that would be boring and that Sherlock is probably a sexual volcano waiting to go off.
Hmmmmm lies mean something like planning like something that may be something going to happen.
On this issue they talk BS and they admit it.

besleybean · March 13, 2016 8:51 pm

For me they have said quite clearly that Sherlock and John are not going to end up together.

Mothonthemantel · March 13, 2016 9:04 pm

They have hinted Sherlock may be virginal ish , and then they said they were turning this young Sherlock into a Rathbone ish Sherlock, and that Rathbone Sherlock definatly was not a virgin - somthing happened somewhere. Doesn't that mean something sexual should be planned for Sherlock at some point about now? If you accept things they have said as true regarding sexuality , does this make Sherlock something like a chaste by choice bisexual?

SusiGo · March 13, 2016 9:04 pm

It would be very strange if they told us how the story was going to end. Not a thing writers usually do.

besleybean · March 13, 2016 9:07 pm

I've read the books, so I kind of know how it'll end. Ha.
But yes, I know what you mean.
But still, I would put money on Sherlock and John never getting together.

Whisky · March 13, 2016 10:28 pm

My first thought was: isn't the most possible scenario that the german media picks up hot topics from british media? I'm not entirely sure they came to this conclusion on their own, although it's of course possible. But if I had to write an article about something, I'd do research first. And would probably think: wow, that's a hot topic, I'll comment on it.

edit: If I think about it like that, maybe it's really difficult by now to find un-biased opinion on Johnlock. Still, I've got friends who haven't got a clue about Sherlock, watched the show and came out on both sides: one claimed there was definitely something going on between John and Sherlock, other one was totally surprised by this idea.
I wish I could go back and watch it all again for the first time :-) (not only for this reason :D )

Last edited by Whisky (March 13, 2016 10:38 pm)

mrshouse · March 14, 2016 5:53 am

Whisky wrote:
Still, I've got friends who haven't got a clue about Sherlock, watched the show and came out on both sides: one claimed there was definitely something going on between John and Sherlock, other one was totally surprised by this idea.
I wish I could go back and watch it all again for the first time :-) (not only for this reason :D )

I love that outcome.
And YES, I would love to watch it like a first time again, I remember this evening like not soooooo long ago...

besleybean · March 14, 2016 6:43 am

I do remember that very first night ever, sitting watching SIP when it first aired in the UK.
I remember seeing the cafe scene and being curious.
It wasn't really until the staircase scene in TBB, that I realised John was being shown as a hot blooded hetero male and Sherlock as indifferent.
I've seen nothing to change me on that.
Then when I stared hearing, reading and seeing team interviews, I felt my views chimed with theirs.
Nothing has changed me on this.

nakahara · March 14, 2016 9:56 am

John behaves strangely around women. Very strangely:

http://beejohnlocked.tumblr.com/post/134711100951/john-and-women

SusiGo · March 14, 2016 10:02 am

Yes. This.

And I would also add John's almost compulsory coming on to every woman crossing his path - think of Anthea or Irene's envoy. For me it was always a case of "The gentleman doth protest too much."