Yes, and the Sherlock universe seems to be shown as not homophobic. 

Sherlock seems to suppress his sexual/romantic feelings towards anyone, not just towards men.  (In fact, we don't see either John or Sherlock being attracted to men.   And we don't see a reason - a homophobic environment - for them to suppress attraction towards men in particular.  Sherlock does seem to suppress his urges - but for other reasons than sexual orientation).

Well said,  moth.

Liberty wrote:

mrshouse wrote:

To say Johnlockers see either Johnlock or queerbaiting doesn't sit right with me. I think it's not that simple. We see a subtextual romantic story arc. Even some non -shippers see things open to interpretation. To continue to show the relationship open and a bit ambiguous might on the long run result in queerbaiting.

Just to clarify .. I was talking about the argument in the video linked earlier.  It's one I've seen before, but I don't assume that all Johnlockers see it that way.  And yes, I'm not a shipper (at least in the sense of thinking that's what we're being shown in the show.  I'm all for shipping them in fanfiction, etc!).

The funny thing about TAB was that I thought it was very non-Johnlock!    I mean, here we are in Sherlock's imagination, where it would be completely safe for him to "get off" with John if he wanted to ... but he doesn't get anywhere near it.  Plus there's the greenhouse conversation.  Just shows how open to individual interpretation things are!  

Anyway, Moth, about your question.   I think some of what we see is because the writers are trying to show an unusual relationship - this isn't in any way your usual buddy relationship.   It's a love relationship, which although it isn't sexual (in my opinion) has elements that are very similar to romantic relationships - courtship, tension, mystery, unquestioning devotion, etc.  Sherlock isn't so much John's mate at the beginning, but a mesmerising and elusive figure whom John is almost addicted to. 

I do think what Irene says is ambiguous, but I don't think she actually believes they are a couple in the sense of being in a sexual relationship.   However, what they have definitely has elements of a romantic or marriage type relationship, with Sherlock again in that elusive role, but John almost in a traditionally female wife-type role (caring for Sherlock, etc.).  

I think it's a fascinating portrayal of a unique friendship, and I think there's a powerful and, as I mentioned, almost addictive attraction between them, but I don't see anything sexual in it.  I think it's made fairly clear that that's not part of their relationship. 

I second that 100%, Liberty (including the part of shipping in FF but not necessarily in the show )

See maybe I'll have to take notes form you, Liberty.
I honestly find it such a difficult episode to watch.
Simply because I cannot abide to see Sherlock linked with any female.
I find it hard to accept he could have feelings for any woman.
But that's just me. I know that. I recognise that, I understand that and openly acknowledge that's me.
I would then not(for example) try and set up a case, cherry picking moments from the series to show that in every other way it can't be the case because obviously Sherlock likes men.
I would also always listen to what the actor and writer have to say, as well of course of reading the ACD account.
Now I know some of that is easier for me, because I tend to Sherlock being at least celibate if not asexual.
But even then, I do have to accept that throughout the show, if Sherlock is 'linked ' with anybody, it's a female.
I can still intellectualise those relationships of course and practically, unlike John: Sherlock is never really shown either dating or settling down.
I am mainly blessed in that I am fully au fait(as can be) with the concept of bromance:  true, close, loving male friendship.
Nothing really romantic and certainly not sexual, but for me it is the most beautiful thing to behold
I think it's a shame if other people have no experience of this phenomenon.

besleybean wrote:

I am mainly blessed in that I am fully au fait(as can be) with the concept of bromance:  true, close, loving male friendship.

Could you please explain why you consider that a blessing?

But you were referring to bromance specificially. Why is seeing bromance a blessing and everything else is not?

Last edited by Schmiezi (January 24, 2016 10:25 am)

I prefer Jude Law's and RDJ''s views on Holmesian bromance:

"What is this new term everyone's using? It's a horrible term. What about just a romance?"

“I think the word bromance is so passé. We are two men who happen to be roommates who wrestle a lot and share a bed.”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Last edited by SusiGo (January 24, 2016 10:49 am)

For some!

What exactly is the difference between a bromance and a close friendship?

besleybean wrote:

Oh, I see what you mean.
Well, I just personally find it very sweet when I see 2 guys in such a friendship.

I still don't see why you feel blessed and I as a Johnlocker should not. Well, anyway.