BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



January 17, 2016 6:32 pm  #4741


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yeah, I know that.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 6:36 pm  #4742


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think the simplest explanation is that he does have feelings, urges, emotions, etc. (towards the objects of desire mentioned, although probably not exclusively!), but suppresses them.    (As I said, I don't think this is about sexual orientation, beyond the fact that the two examples given are female, but I do think it's quite clear that he doesn't feel "that way" towards John.  If he did, he'd have avoided getting close to hiim too, and wouldn't have lived with him.   He openly admits to his feelings for John too, publicly.   He already is, in a sense, "in a relationship" with John - but it's a friendship). 

The portrait - remember that he keeps Irene's phone too!   They're directly comparable, so I don't think it's at all strange that he would keep a memento of her in his mind palace.  Obviously, Sherlock wouldn't have imagined a phone for his Victorian self, but this is pretty close.    And it's at the point when he's talking about romance that it comes into his mind.   His Watson does not appear at all jealous in that scene (in my opinion) - he's questioning him about why he chooses to be alone (not about why he might prefer Irene over him). 

Last edited by Liberty (January 17, 2016 6:43 pm)

 

January 17, 2016 6:38 pm  #4743


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

So you think secretly searching your friend's pocket watch is the normal thing a straight bloke does? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 17, 2016 6:51 pm  #4744


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't get the impression that he was trying to cop a feel! 
 

 

January 17, 2016 7:22 pm  #4745


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Similar to stag night  though , only an actual ghost and not a nurse with a ghost case.

After is funnier and similar too , John sees the ghost and runs off and let's the killer in .or
John runs off and marries Mary ,and err let's a killer in .
Coincidence ?
Very funny though.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 17, 2016 7:30 pm  #4746


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty wrote:

I don't get the impression that he was trying to cop a feel! 
 

Never said he did. But he got quite intrusive.
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 17, 2016 7:30 pm  #4747


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

It is a series of coincidences.
Mary only shot Sherlock, cos he was in the way.
He was only there because of a client.
Mary was only there because CAM put pressure on her.
CAM only put pressure on her, to get at John, to get at Sherlock, to get at Mycroft.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 7:33 pm  #4748


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

The universe is rarely so lazy.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 17, 2016 7:35 pm  #4749


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Of course.
Steven had to come up with a way for CAM to get at Mycroft!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 8:39 pm  #4750


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Susi, he was becoming verbally intrusive, much more so than in is usual in "real life", but I keep remembering that he is Sherlock's creation.  It's not actually John questioning Sherlock, but Sherlock questioning himself, being uncomfortable with admitting things to himself.  It's not really about John's feelings, jealousy or otherwise, I don't think. 

 

January 17, 2016 8:51 pm  #4751


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Sherlock experienced John being uncomfortable, probably jealous, about Irene in ASIB. This is reflected in his mind in TAB.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 17, 2016 8:52 pm  #4752


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Where do you see jealousy about Irene?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 8:58 pm  #4753


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I think we have been over this often enough. The 57 texts John has been counting. The baby name remark. And he also feels protective towards Sherlock where she is concerned.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 17, 2016 8:59 pm  #4754


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I just think he feels Sherlock is interested in Irene and John(rightly)thinks she is bad news.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 9:22 pm  #4755


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

"Why should I eat if I'm not hungry?"
That much for being attracted...


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

January 17, 2016 9:24 pm  #4756


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I'm not saying Sherlock was...
But John thought he was.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 9:29 pm  #4757


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Agreed. And green with jealousy.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

January 17, 2016 9:30 pm  #4758


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I didn't see jealous at all.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 17, 2016 10:05 pm  #4759


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo wrote:

Sherlock experienced John being uncomfortable, probably jealous, about Irene in ASIB. This is reflected in his mind in TAB.

I don't see jealousy - I see concern (I also saw concern in ASIB).  I think "Watson" is actually quite a flattering portrayal of John. 

 

January 17, 2016 11:03 pm  #4760


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Just want to jump in and remind that in ACD canon, Holmes kept Irene's photo as his only payment for the case, a memento of the woman who beat him - in BBC Sherlock this was cleverly transformed into a phone, but in TAB it makes sense to revert to the original form of a photo. I like that they did this

In A Scandal in Bohemia, Watson is there when Holmes asks for and keeps the photograph. Watson states clearly that Holmes did not feel any emotion akin to love for Irene, but says that when Holmes talked of her, he always referred to her as the woman. It was an honourable title. In ASiB, John is there when Sherlock asks for and keeps the phone, but he doesn't seem to understand why Sherlock wants it. Throughout the whole episode he's not sure what Sherlock, if anything, feels for Irene. I think in TAB the scene shows us again that John doesn't understand the reason behind Sherlock keeping Irene's photo. Sherlock imagines John prying into his personal belongings - his pocket watch - and prying into his feelings, trying to understand him. His imaginary John assumes Sherlock must have feelings akin to love or attraction to her, but Sherlock tells him that he keeps the photograph to remind himself of the remarkable adventure with a formidable opponent. I believe this is why Sherlock keeps Irene's phone, too.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum