Well, there is the saying that drunks and little children are telling the truth. Or, more scientifically, that alcohol lowers inhibitions and makes you do things you subconsciously wanted to do but did not dare to. 

Of course, the simplest explanation is that the last scene isn't sexual!    (I remember somebody, possibly Steven Moffat, once saying that Sherlock wouldn't choose to live with somebody who aroused him in that way - it would be no good for brainwork.    Whatever else his relationship with John is about, it's not about that). 

I agree, Besleybean, that if they did feel that way about each other and wanted to be together, they would be.  I think that if they'd made John date men, it would have set the scene quite nicely, because of course we'd wonder if he was attracted to Sherlock!   But it seems that they haven't shown either of them as dating men at all. 

That latter is a tad irksome, though I confess, not as annoying as the fan response to those moments!
But anyhow...it's one of those instances when it's a bit irritating nobody says anything on the commentary.
There are 2 other instances during the stag night where things happened accidentally and are left in for a laugh. Both when the nurse(sorry, forgot her name)comes for help : John pointing to Sherlock's name stuck on his head, which apparently Martin only did to try and make Benedict laugh.
Then Sherlock forgetting what to refer to John as: apparently Benedict genuinely forgot the line: my colleague/friend, or whatever he was meant to say.
So possibly Martin actually did lose balance and really did prop himself up on Benedict's knee and they just left it in for a laugh.
The team very definitely speak up on the TEH commentary about Hudders thinking John is going to marry a man: surely that's the last laugh for that particular joke, they say...the gay joke.

Last edited by besleybean (December 20, 2015 9:21 am)

The trouble with the reasons for them not being together, I think, is that they aren't really written in.   Yes, you could look at it and fit that reason to what we see, but it isn't flagged up and made part of the story, as far as I can see.   For instance, there's nothing at all to tell us that John isn't comfortable dating men (as opposed to just not fancying them!).    They could have written that in and shown him being uncomfortable about it.  Otherwise he just comes across as only being interested in women.    So it's needing the audience to start from a Johnlock perspective and work back to see how to fit things (like John only dating women) to that. 

I personally, don't find the knee grab terribly ambiguous - I can't say why it was put in, but I think they both look convincingly drunk there and it's the kind of thing that happens.  I was actually a little bit suprised that they didn't go further with the trope of drunk friends going all romantic on each other (hugging and saying they love each other, etc.).   These two were still fairly restrained!   

I don't think there's any need to reduce speculations within the show though.   Johnlock is part the whole Sherlock Holmes world, and they do allude to it.  But I think that in the writing, it doesn't come across as if they they are writing it in as their canon, rather than just referencing it. 

Vhanja wrote:

Liberty wrote:

The trouble with the reasons for them not being together, I think, is that they aren't really written in.   Yes, you could look at it and fit that reason to what we see, but it isn't flagged up and made part of the story, as far as I can see.   For instance, there's nothing at all to tell us that John isn't comfortable dating men (as opposed to just not fancying them!).    They could have written that in and shown him being uncomfortable about it.  Otherwise he just comes across as only being interested in women.    So it's needing the audience to start from a Johnlock perspective and work back to see how to fit things (like John only dating women) to that. 

I think this is a fairly good point.

 
I don't quite agree with this. There have been tons and tons of romantic movies and series were it takes the couple ages and ages to declare. The TV landscape would miss a huge part if every pairing " just got together, no problems, no obstacles". It's not that easy, in no orientation. So this is for me not the point at all. What actually kept Ross and Rachel apart? It took them about 20 series to finally get together.

Yes, they were straight. So? My point was, that the two protagonists getting together can take ages, thus fuels and feeds tons of movies and series and is not always easy, no matter the orientation.
And if I remember correctly yes, it was called " romance" by TPTB.

I think they did, yes. I think Susi mentioned it once, must ask her about the source again.
As for the second: Well, The L-Word comes to mind, Brokeback mountain. And two movies I don't remember the title. One with Julianne Moore as housewife back in the fifties being left by her husband for a man and one with Cate Blanchet married falling for a woman.

But of course BBC Sherlock is based on canon and Holmes and Watson do not end up together.

That's because she was Victorian and cast in the role of all Victorian ladies.
Incidentally, how has Mary come between the boys?
Excuse John for falling in love and wanting to get married.
So how many series do you think there'll be before we actually get Sherlock and John together?
When people really do think it will happen in the show I am honestly staggered: it's very frustrating. This is made worse because of there being so little material over such a long time.
I don't know whether to admire people's gall,  feel sorry for them or what.
Is there nothing that will convince you otherwise?
If it doesn't happen in the end, what then?
It really is a fascinating phenomenon and I do understand it to a certain extent..
But I will never understand why people cannot accept what the team have said.
I honestly think Mark at the Mumbai film festival was it...he couldn't be any clearer.
Then again, I've sat in a room with people watching real life video footage and could not believe the level of denial..
Human being s are just.....I don't honestly know what word to use.
But can folk not accept they are just seeing what they want to see?
Actually I will expand on that: are there any Johnlockers who actually don't want Johnlock but think it's there?

Thank you, Vhanja.
It's a pity that this gets personal again. I could as well argue that I find it tiresome that people think Sherlock and Irene are love doves and argue with very little material whereas Johnlockers try to argue with a lot of material of all kinds straight from the show. Or it's deeply frustrating that Warston shall be a sign of a wonderful deep and interestingly flawed love when we get little material.
I agree there's a lot overanalyzing though. But as Vhanja said they keep putting it in and if I remember the last article correctly will keep on doing so.
And about how Mary is wedged between them, that should be transferred to the Marythread, I just took it as an example for the twists.