I remember we talked about and disagreed on John being jealous of Janine.
But this is interesting:
http://221behavior.tumblr.com/post/125537926417/jealous-john-outed-by-wallpaper
*whistles*

Moftiss actually mention the warmer lighting in the commentary.

STEVEN: Now we’ve got Neville Kidd lighting 221B slightly different[ly]. I rather like his rather warmer version of it; it's cosier somehow.
MARK: D’you remember, we had a long talk about [how] this had to be very very very early in the morning, because this day is very long. There’s a long bath, and then Magnussen arrives and it’s all the same day, so that lovely golden light – I remember having discussions about it. They’ve probably come there at the crack of dawn.
(from Arianne de Vere).

I know this is going to sound far too obvious, but it would be strange if he wasn't in bed with his new wife when he was sleeping/dreaming.    I'm not sure how else they could have shown it.   Perhaps when he was taking a nap on his own ... but I feel this scene is a companion to the one at the start of ASIP, where John is dreaming before he wakes up in bed.   For me, I don't think those dreams come across as sexual (although I know they do for some people).  it's almost the opposite of sexual/Johnlock, because it shows that Sherlock and Mary have different roles in his life. 

But I agree, generally - I doubt very much if they'll go down the Johnlock route at this stage (although it's still possible). 

I don't think they are nightmares as such (I know we've talked about this in another thread!  I see Sherlock as saving him from a life that feels is dull and meaningless after the army, rather from the dreams), but either way, I think Sherlock saving John is big part of their friendship (in the BBC series rather than the books) and is evident from ASIP on.   I just don't see where the Johnlock element comes in (and I don't think it does).

I think you have similar things going on in same sex love stories too.  But I suppose because we're in a world where homophobia is an issue, so many gay love stories have had to focus on sexual oriientation as an issue - it becomes the focus rather than "incidental".    Not that I think there shouldn't be stories where it's the focus, of course, but there don't seem to be enough where it isn't.   There have been a few articles and things linked to here (particularly the BBC policy one, Mark Gatiss's comments on the "softly, sofly" approach, and his comments at Mumbai) which convince me that if they'd wanted it them to be lovers, they'd have been open about it from the start - their sexuality would not be hidden away and only shown through coded messages. 

I think it might be possible to develop a different kind of relationship in later series', but I think it would take an effort to not make it look shoehorned in after the way the story was set up in the first place.  (But Mark's apparently heartfelt comments at Mumbai seem to rule that out too). 

Very true, mrshouse. And let us not forget that we only get two happy couples at all in the whole show - Mr and Mrs Holmes who share certain similarities with John and Sherlock and the gay guys in HoB. 

And once again - I bet if we had a man and a woman and only half of the romantic tropes that are employed in the show no one would doubt that they are in love/will become a couple one day. 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 9, 2015 5:18 pm)

Liberty wrote:

Yes, I'm sure there would be speculation if they had been opposite sex too.  But actually, if it was set up in a simlar way (for instance, that Sherlock was a woman, and John was only seen dating men), then it would still end up raising sexual orientation as an issue, and I'd be wondering why they made John appear gay in the first place.  

I don't think it would have worked so well having John have an epiphany about Sherlock during the day.  I think that scene is a direct reference to the scene at the beginning of ASIP.  It's got to be John waking up from a dream - I think it even uses the same footage, if I remember correctly.

Not exactly the same because now he dreams of Sherlock.  

Indeed. And runs to the door and starts to behave in an unfriendly and quarrelsome way the moment he realises it is not Sherlock in front of the door. And he mentions him to the neighbour who probably does not know Sherlock or of John's connection to him. Sherlock seems to be on his mind which leads to Mary's snide and smug remark about not everyone knowing Sherlock. Just imagine for a second John had dreamt of another woman and he and Mary had reacted this way. Most people would not deny that this is about desire and jealousy. 

I don't really see the scene as being about Mary.  I don't think John/Mary has ever been presented as a "romance", and I don't really see a jealousy situation.  (If anything both Mary and Sherlock seem very unjealous, even when you might think they might both have reason to see the other as a threat, whether or not you believe in Johnlock).    I don't see how Mary could be jealous of the dream, because she doesn't know about it.    Her dismissive remark about Sherlock - well, she knows that John idolises him, and so do a lot of the public - maybe she feels some satisfaction at pointing out that the feeling isn't universal.   But sexual jealousy ... I don't see it.  If anything, Mary seems to try to get John and Sherlock together. 

Sherlock is the person who "found" John and "saved" him, and the dream shows the war (what John missed) being replaced by Sherlock quite clearly.  It's Sherlock who John misses now and he jumps at the chance of being recruited again.  He wouldn't dream of a woman in that situation - what woman plays that sort of part in his life?  What woman does have a relationship like that with?    If Sherlock was a woman (it's hard to imagine and I suppose it would depend on how the story was set up), then I suppose it would mean the same thing.   

I don't think it is about sexual jealousy but I don't really see other jealousy there either, when I might have expected to.   It doesn't really look like the scene with Sholto at all to me.  She seems to want them to be together right from when she first meets Sherlock.   The only thing I can think of, and this is just speculating with the value of hindsight, is that Mary could well feel put out by how glamorous, exciting, etc. Sherlock appeared, when in fact she had a terribly exciting background that she was having to hide.    I think it's quite possible she would feel that way, but I don't see her obviously feeling it.