I think my issue is, I've never heard of that kind of "soulmate" relationship that wasn't romantic. To me, this isn't necessarily "proof" that Johnlock will happen, it's more that I kind of react to how far they will take this friendship into the trope world of romance without making it a romance. 

I do agree myself that Johnlockers sometimes overanalyze scenes to see things that aren't there. But I just as strongly believe they put stuff in the show that is plain for all to see that can be very easily interpreted as romantic tropes. And to with one hand play so easily with romance tropes and then with the other hand so vehemently deny it just feels a bit off to me. 

I am not a newbie to the world of fan ships. I remember the shitstorm when J.K.Rowling finally announced that Harry/Hermione would never happen. To me, that was obvious. And you'd be shocked to learn what ships exist in the HP fandom (every single one you can think of, and quite a few you would never dream of, exists with it's own fanbase and it's own fics).

But I feel that the Johnlockers here aren't just feeding their fantasy, like the HP fans did. There is honestly plenty of romance tropes to choose from to support Johnlock. Yet it won't happen. And I believe it won't. So I think what I'm basically saying is.. perhaps Moftiss should be a bit more careful with what they put on sceen? Why add so much that is not needed for the friendship show that will only fuel the fire?

Last edited by Vhanja (May 2, 2015 9:55 pm)

Oh, I think there are deliberate romantic tropes in the show - definitely.   I don't think that's accidental or imagined.  I just don't think they're meant to discount what they seem to have set up and stuck to from the first episode - John is interested in women, and Sherlock is married to his work.  (Yes, I could be proven wrong!).  

I think soulmate friendships do happen in real life, even if they're rare in fiction.  Sherlock and John's friendship has to be something that keeps them together, against the odds, at least until retirement age.  Not just being friends, but having that special relationship.  It's not as if they're actually colleagues who are pushed together by work, as in many "buddy" type films.   They choose to work together and often live together, despite John having his own career, and they have to survive marriage(s), separation, etc.    I think it has to be pretty strong and compelling and I think the series has set that up very well - we can see why they are drawn to each other, their depth of feeling for each other and what they have with each other that they don't have with anyone else.   And yet, it's not a straightforward friendship, by any means. 

lil wrote:

It's hard for me to see how they could take it much further along the romantic arc without it actually being Ro instead of Bro after HLV anyway.

My thoughts exactly. We have a series with a long storytelling arc, no more or less independent episodes. They keep quoting older episodes by giving the same lines to other characters or using parallel situations and images, etc. Moffat has said that this is the "Sherlock and John show", they are at the centre of the show. So if we assume that the story is continually driven forward by new developments on all levels I cannot imagine how they should return to the "flatmates with occasional women on the side" pattern (which ceased after ASiB anyway). And series 3 has proven once and for all that Sherlock is not married to his work either. 
 

Brillliant deduction. 

Okay, thank you for explaining, I see your point clearer now. Though I don't really agree. I have wonderful friendships, but romantic elements? Hmmm, no, that would be exclusive for my husband.
Vhanja, I like your thought. 

Lol, awesome emotes!

BBC3 ship Johnlock! 

Last edited by Vhanja (May 3, 2015 6:37 pm)

Vhanja wrote:

I think my issue is, I've never heard of that kind of "soulmate" relationship that wasn't romantic. To me, this isn't necessarily "proof" that Johnlock will happen, it's more that I kind of react to how far they will take this friendship into the trope world of romance without making it a romance.

I think especially among men, it's very possible to have a long term, deep, co-dependent relationship with not a hint of a sexual component anywhere. Most straight men (at least here in the US) are conditioned by family and  society to not "go there"-- whatever they do, they shouldn't catch any gay cooties! In the US, those who are living an openly gay life truly are gay, right from the get-go, not guys who were once living 100% as straight men, until they met "the one", and then did an abrupt 180 to take up with their friend "in that way".  And yes, I know I'm speaking in generalities and that there are exceptions to every rule.

I do agree myself that Johnlockers sometimes overanalyze scenes to see things that aren't there.

Except that it is there, in spades, in almost every scene that S/J have together. Johnlock has been deliberately and repeatedly included throughout their friendship and working relationship on the show, right from the moment they met. I don't think anyone would have to overanalyze anything--  it's like the huge pink elephant in the room that everyone keeps tripping over. What good does it do to be like blind people and keep saying, "Oh, my, whatever is that big looming stinky thing in the room?" to scratch one's head and say, "Huh."  It's JOHNLOCK, right there for anyone to see.

  ..........And to with one hand play so easily with romance tropes and then with the other hand so vehemently deny it just feels a bit off to me.

Johnlock gets the fans stirred up and ensures that we'll want to keep watching. For casual viewers, they can just slide on by. But people like us, those who are still taking part in a Sherlock forum like this one, many months after we've seen the last new material and many months before we'll see more, then it's intriguing enough for endless discussion. This is all good business for everyone who is benefitting from the Sherlock pie. Plus I think the writers and showrunners are flattered by all the attention. In my opinion, they have no intention of doing anything different, ever, as long as it works, and the ratings continue to be good.

But I feel that the Johnlockers here aren't just feeding their fantasy, like the HP fans did. There is honestly plenty of romance tropes to choose from to support Johnlock. Yet it won't happen. And I believe it won't. So I think what I'm basically saying is.. perhaps Moftiss should be a bit more careful with what they put on sceen? Why add so much that is not needed for the friendship show that will only fuel the fire?

I agree with you that it won't happen. Sherlock is way too big a cash cow for the BBC and everyone else for them to turn the show into a gay drama of any kind. And you know that's what will happen, if they allow John and Sherlock to start a relationship. Even if no one ever sees a kiss or a hug, if all they show is them coming out of a bedroom at the same time, or some snickering and fond looks from Mrs. Hudson (for instance), you know that you know that the media and the fans will then label the whole thing as a gay romance, and our "stories about a detective" will no longer be the focus. I agree with you, as I said. It won't happen, in my opinion.

Just my two cents, as always, marked down from five.
 

Which would be the almost classical definition of queer baiting.

But then, it's highly based on US experiences, which are not necessarily the same in Europe.