BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

Harriet · December 22, 2014 6:21 pm

And the Indian audience don't believe in him either

Vhanja · December 22, 2014 6:26 pm

Haha, I love the Indian audience. Seems Johnlock isn't just a European thing.

Harriet · December 22, 2014 6:32 pm

They are great! And it seems, unlike Mark, they have watched S3

While he appears oddly stuck in the settings of S1+2, not realising the development of his main character

SusiGo · December 22, 2014 6:34 pm

The interesting thing, though, is that for Mark series 3 apparently has not happened. Still going on about the old suppression of feelings, body is transport, mind is what matters - I sometimes wonder if I dreamt series 3.

Liberty · December 22, 2014 6:38 pm

Well, Mark does have a particular insight, being one of the writers . And it does make sense - he's not averse to writing about gay protagonists, he thinks there should be more representation on screen - so if they'd wanted to write them as a gay couple, they'd have done it proudly and openly (not in obscure little hints).

I think the interview is pretty unequivocal. But I don't think he has anything against people interpreting it in the way that they want (and my own feelings don't always exactly line up with what the writers' or actors' intentions are, so I understand).

(And the "transport" part seems to be about sexual relationships, not friendship. Sherlock doesn't have a problem with being friends with John, and loving him. Sex isn't dealt with in S3, so what Mark says applies).

Last edited by Liberty (December 22, 2014 6:41 pm)

SusiGo · December 22, 2014 6:55 pm

So we have been talking about obscure little hints for months on end. Silly me.

nakahara · December 22, 2014 7:04 pm

You don´t have to make them an openly gay couple, dear Mark.
Just make them a couple.

Last edited by nakahara (December 22, 2014 7:04 pm)

besleybean · December 22, 2014 7:11 pm

He clearly states they are not nor are ever going to be a couple.

nakahara · December 22, 2014 7:23 pm

Then rename the show to "Watsons".

besleybean · December 22, 2014 7:24 pm

It's about Sherlock.

tonnaree · December 22, 2014 7:27 pm

*runs in*
*screams*

I will sail this ship to the gates of hell!

*runs out*
*giggling*

nakahara · December 22, 2014 7:28 pm

It was until now, but according to the authors, next instalments would be about a happy family life of John and Mary and their little baby, with some awkward detective third wheel bumbling uselessly through the backround.
I see no point in retaining the old name of the show with such content.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 7:33 pm

That's really their artistic decision, same for all the characters and the plots.

nakahara · December 22, 2014 7:41 pm

As i said - not "Sherlock" anymore, but "Watsons".
The pair show to "Eastenders".

Last edited by nakahara (December 22, 2014 7:41 pm)

Harriet · December 22, 2014 7:43 pm

To me, there is nothing really new stated, nor with new more convincing reasons.

Also, why should story writers who build their work on suspense should give away such information?

I stay calm and ship on

besleybean · December 22, 2014 7:46 pm

I am not at all surprised.
But it is clear for all to hear and see,
If some wish to ignore it, that's up to them.
But I listen to Mark, rather than random opinion.

Harriet · December 22, 2014 7:51 pm

You have to be aware that Mark's opinions tend to be random, though, and keep changing and changing.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 7:53 pm

He has never changed on this point.
He has been consistant throughout.

Liberty · December 22, 2014 7:56 pm

Why does no Johnlock mean the show has to be about the Watsons? The original stories didn't have anything overt, and yet Mrs Watson(s) barely made an appearance. The central relationship is always going to be Sherlock and John. I think it's clear that Moftiss love that relationship and think it's the main feature of the stories.

(And I wonder if that's where some people are getting confused - because they're looking for a "conventional" love story, and as the show is about John and Sherlock's relationship that gets translated into a more typical love story?)

And I agree, Besleybean - I haven't (so far!) seen Mark (or the other people involved) make a claim for Johnlock. They have been quite consistent about this.

Last edited by Liberty (December 22, 2014 7:57 pm)

Vhanja · December 22, 2014 8:01 pm

I never understood what Martin said when he stated that he didn't mind shipping and slash-fiction as long as it didn't become "political" and "stalinist", and that people didn't think their views where better and what the show should be about. It made no sense to me how such words could be used for something as light-spirited and fun as shipping and fics.

After delving deeper into the Sherlockian fan world, I am now starting to understand what he means.