BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

Liberty · November 6, 2014 7:42 am

Yes, Steven has mentioned it outside the commentary too. But I think it's something that made a really big impression on him as a child. Maybe because Holmes can sometimes be quite noble at other times?

There's another bit in the commentary where they talk about "A Case of Identity" where we see Sherlock's reaction to somebody who deceives a woman with a fake proposal for his own financial gain ...

"The law cannot, as you say, touch you," said Holmes, unlocking and throwing open the door, "yet there never was a man who deserved punishment more. If the young lady has a brother or a friend, he ought to lay a whip across your shoulders. By Jove!" he continued, flushing up at the sight of the bitter sneer upon the man's face, "it is not part of my duties to my client, but here's a hunting crop handy, and I think I shall just treat myself to--" He took two swift steps to the whip, but before he could grasp it there was a wild clatter of steps upon the stairs, the heavy hall door banged, and from the window we could see Mr. James Windibank running at the top of his speed down the road.

I think Holmes thinks it's amusing to terrify the guy, but I get the impression from the commentary that Steven Moffat was struck by how outraged Holmes was that the man would carry out this sort of deception. I don't think he connects it to Holmes' own fake proposal later, but if he read the stories in order he would have read that one first, and then been understandably shocked at Holmes doing something he appeared to despise.

(Of course, from Sherlock's point of view, the purpose is different - trapping Magnussen, rather than for personal financial gain. He's always prepared to use the apparently unscrupulous methods if, on balance, they get the right outcome - like shooting Magnussen).

It's a bit like the wedding speech - Steven openly says that he's revisiting and addressing feelings he had about the stories as a child, reading them. No, they're not as outraged about the murder, but there wasn't much alternative there. The proposal wasn't necessary as Sherlock could just have befriended Janine and worked with her. He's horrible to her, just because it's a good plan ... anyway, I think John is going through much the same as the audience there - thinking Sherlock had softened a little, then seeing him do something awful.

Last edited by Liberty (November 6, 2014 6:12 pm)

nakahara · November 6, 2014 7:42 am

Liberty wrote:
So, I think that here, John is showing what they see as a normal reaction to something awful that Sherlock is doing.

No, he doesn´t. All he sees in this very moment is Sherlock offering a ring to his would-be-fianceé. The realisation that this was just a ruse from Sherlock and that he just did it to break into CAM´s office comes a minute later, when they are entering an elevator. So this can´t be John´s reaction to that yet.

nakahara · November 6, 2014 7:49 am

Liberty wrote:
I think Holmes thinks it's amusing to terrify the guy, but I get the impression from the commentary that Steven Moffat was struck by how outraged Holmes was that the man would carry out this sort of deception. I don't think he connects it to Holmes' own fake proposal later, but if he read the stories in order he would have read that one first, and then been understandably shocked at Holmes doing something he appeared to despise.

Holmes of the canon only lies to the girl in order to save another woman´s marriage and happiness. Its his only chance to seize Milverton´s blakmail documents before it´s too late.
He chooses less of two evils - the lie to young girl (but it is insinuated that she has another lover is store quite ready) over the utter destruction of his female client.
SO he doesn´t lie for his own amusement like this comment make it sound!

Last edited by nakahara (November 6, 2014 7:50 am)

nakahara · November 6, 2014 7:57 am

Liberty wrote:
Oh, Sherlock lets him know what he's doing right away. He's explaining how to get into the office - he goes through the problems with other methods, then shows him his clever plan. I think he really does think it's a clever plan at that point and is kind of showing off. It's clear that the proposal is his method of getting in. (It doesn't even look real - it's a typical Sherlock-in-disguise moment).

And about Holmes being amused - I meant in A Case of Identity. I'd quoted a bit above, but the next bit is "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more.

According to Ariane de Vere´s transcription of a scene:

=10pt=10pt=11pt=10pt=11pt=10PTSHERLOCK: You see? As long as there’s people, there’s always a weak spot.
(He starts to walk into the lift but John stops him.)
JOHN: That was Janine.
SHERLOCK: Yes, of course it was Janine. She’s Magnussen’s PA. That’s the whole point.
JOHN: Did you just get engaged to break into an office?
SHERLOCK: Yeah. (He steps into the lift.) Stroke of luck, meeting her at your wedding. You can take some of the credit.
JOHN: Je-Jesus!

I think it is obvious that John only realised that Sherlock was lying when they entered the lift.
His look when Sherlock first produced the ring therefore seems more like jealousy or shock and disbelief to me, but certainly not a realisation that Sherlock lies.

And concerning the "Holmes being amused" thing - I aimed my protest at the commentary of the authors, who should know better. They made it seem as if it was Sherlock´s favourite pasttime to make fools of young maids - when this was only his last resort with which he saved another woman!

Liberty · November 6, 2014 7:57 am

nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I think Holmes thinks it's amusing to terrify the guy, but I get the impression from the commentary that Steven Moffat was struck by how outraged Holmes was that the man would carry out this sort of deception. I don't think he connects it to Holmes' own fake proposal later, but if he read the stories in order he would have read that one first, and then been understandably shocked at Holmes doing something he appeared to despise.

Holmes of the canon only lies to the girl in order to save another woman´s marriage and happiness. Its his only chance to seize Milverton´s blakmail documents before it´s too late.
He chooses less of two evils - the lie to young girl (but it is insinuated that she has another lover is store quite ready) over the utter destruction of his female client.
SO he doesn´t lie for his own amusement like this comment make it sound!

I meant in A Case of Identity (the bit I'm quoting). It's not Holmes who is lying there, but the stepfather of the girl. Holmes appears to be incensed with rage that the stepfather would fake a relationship and a proposal, for his own gain. But in the next line, it appears that he could also be amused at terrifying the guy "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more. But Steven concentrates on his outrage, and what I meant was that if he'd read the stories in order, and saw Holmes as somebody who would be outraged at treating a woman like that, then he could well be shocked at how Holmes acts in the Milverton story.

nakahara · November 6, 2014 8:04 am

Liberty wrote:
nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I think Holmes thinks it's amusing to terrify the guy, but I get the impression from the commentary that Steven Moffat was struck by how outraged Holmes was that the man would carry out this sort of deception. I don't think he connects it to Holmes' own fake proposal later, but if he read the stories in order he would have read that one first, and then been understandably shocked at Holmes doing something he appeared to despise.

Holmes of the canon only lies to the girl in order to save another woman´s marriage and happiness. Its his only chance to seize Milverton´s blakmail documents before it´s too late.
He chooses less of two evils - the lie to young girl (but it is insinuated that she has another lover is store quite ready) over the utter destruction of his female client.
SO he doesn´t lie for his own amusement like this comment make it sound!

I meant in A Case of Identity (the bit I'm quoting). It's not Holmes who is lying there, but the stepfather of the girl. Holmes appears to be incensed with rage that the stepfather would fake a relationship and a proposal, for his own gain. But in the next line, it appears that he could also be amused at terrifying the guy "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more. But Steven concentrates on his outrage, and what I meant was that if he'd read the stories in order, and saw Holmes as somebody who would be outraged at treating a woman like that, then he could well be shocked at how Holmes acts in the Milverton story.

Sherlock´s lie was dishonorable, but it didn´t destroy his "victim".
On the other hand, his female client would be ruined forever if he didn´t attempt to save her - even using this macchiavellistic technique.

Liberty · November 6, 2014 8:05 am

nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
Oh, Sherlock lets him know what he's doing right away. He's explaining how to get into the office - he goes through the problems with other methods, then shows him his clever plan. I think he really does think it's a clever plan at that point and is kind of showing off. It's clear that the proposal is his method of getting in. (It doesn't even look real - it's a typical Sherlock-in-disguise moment).

And about Holmes being amused - I meant in A Case of Identity. I'd quoted a bit above, but the next bit is "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more.
According to Ariane de Vere´s transcription of a scene:

=10pt=10pt=11pt=10pt=11pt=10PTSHERLOCK: You see? As long as there’s people, there’s always a weak spot.
(He starts to walk into the lift but John stops him.)
JOHN: That was Janine.
SHERLOCK: Yes, of course it was Janine. She’s Magnussen’s PA. That’s the whole point.
JOHN: Did you just get engaged to break into an office?
SHERLOCK: Yeah. (He steps into the lift.) Stroke of luck, meeting her at your wedding. You can take some of the credit.
JOHN: Je-Jesus!

I think it is obvious that John only realised that Sherlock was lying when they entered the lift.
His look when Sherlock first produced the ring therefore seems more like jealousy or shock and disbelief to me, but certainly not a realisation that Sherlock lies.

And concerning the "Holmes being amused" thing - I aimed my protest at the commentary of the authors, who should know better. They made it seem as if it was Sherlock´s favourite pasttime to make fools of young maids - when this was only his last resort with which he saved another woman!

I'm quoting because I was answering your posts out of order, and it didn't make sense! No, if you watch the whole scene, Sherlock is explaining to John how he is going to get into the office - the problems with the identity card and so on - and shows him his plan. He thinks its clever! Sherlock is showing him the proposal as a method for getting into the office.

SusiGo · November 6, 2014 8:08 am

I guess this is the story they allude to in TEH? Where Sherlock seems genuinely shocked about the behaviour of the man?

Back to the proposal - I always had the impression that Janine is quite a tough girl who uses Sherlock's deductive abilities at the wedding and loves the challenge of having a relationship with a man who usually does not do relationships with either men or women. And her quick and clever reactions in milking her affair with Sherlock for money and fame prove this. What I want to say is that my pity with Janine is quite limited, whatever they say in the commentary. And it is played like that in the show.
For me she is at least at eye level with Sherlock, if not even more considering that she must have known he was after Magnussen and yet let him into the office. Not much room for romance there if you ask me.

nakahara · November 6, 2014 8:17 am

Liberty wrote:
I'm quoting because I was answering your posts out of order, and it didn't make sense! No, if you watch the whole scene, Sherlock is explaining to John how he is going to get into the office - the problems with the identity card and so on - and shows him his plan. He thinks its clever! Sherlock is showing him the proposal as a method for getting into the office.

But don´t you realise? The scene is so funny only because John doesn´t get it to the very last moment that Sherlock´s method of breaking into the office is his engagement. It is very obvious he didn´t avait THAT - he only realises when they enter the lift.

nakahara · November 6, 2014 8:32 am

Liberty wrote:
I meant in A Case of Identity (the bit I'm quoting). It's not Holmes who is lying there, but the stepfather of the girl. Holmes appears to be incensed with rage that the stepfather would fake a relationship and a proposal, for his own gain. But in the next line, it appears that he could also be amused at terrifying the guy "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more. But Steven concentrates on his outrage, and what I meant was that if he'd read the stories in order, and saw Holmes as somebody who would be outraged at treating a woman like that, then he could well be shocked at how Holmes acts in the Milverton story.

Personally I would never choose The Case of Identity as a proof of Holmes´ honorable behaviour to women because in that story Holmes carelessly decides not to inform his client that she was decieved with the words:

"If I tell her she will not believe me. You may remember the old Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub, and danger also for whoso snatcheth a delusion from a woman.' There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of the world."

(BBC Sherlock was much, much more considerate towards the same woman in TEH nad informed her right away that she was being had. He was much more honorable in comparison with the original).

Also, I found Steven´s outrage that Doyle made Sherlock into a liar a strange one - when he himself made Sherlock into a murderer.

SolarSystem · November 6, 2014 8:37 am

nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I'm quoting because I was answering your posts out of order, and it didn't make sense! No, if you watch the whole scene, Sherlock is explaining to John how he is going to get into the office - the problems with the identity card and so on - and shows him his plan. He thinks its clever! Sherlock is showing him the proposal as a method for getting into the office.

But don´t you realise? The scene is so funny only because John doesn´t get it to the very last moment that Sherlock´s method of breaking into the office is his engagement. It is very obvious he didn´t avait THAT - he only realises when they enter the lift.

Exactly. I guess you could say that Sherlock's clever explanation of how to get into CAM's office once again impresses John so much (we've seen this before, haven't we?) that he's kind of unable to make the connection when Sherlock suddenly presents the ring to Janine. To John that's a completely different topic, all of a sudden. He's not following, he doesn't get it. He's just surprised and can't believe that Sherlock proposes to Janine right then and there.

Zatoichi · November 6, 2014 10:54 am

SolarSystem wrote:
I guess you could say that Sherlock's clever explanation of how to get into CAM's office once again impresses John so much (we've seen this before, haven't we?) that he's kind of unable to make the connection when Sherlock suddenly presents the ring to Janine. To John that's a completely different topic, all of a sudden. He's not following, he doesn't get it. He's just surprised and can't believe that Sherlock proposes to Janine right then and there.

That´s how I see it, too - he lost track with what´s happening. First he has to process the new information of Sherlock having a girlfriend, then they elaborate a plan how to get into the office, then Sherlock pulls out an engagement-ring.. I think you can almost hear his mental wheels turning in this scene. The realization and outrage come a second later when they enter the lift, in the pic he´s just gobsmacked.

SusiGo wrote:
Back to the proposal - I always had the impression that Janine is quite a tough girl who uses Sherlock's deductive abilities at the wedding and loves the challenge of having a relationship with a man who usually does not do relationships with either men or women. And her quick and clever reactions in milking her affair with Sherlock for money and fame prove this. What I want to say is that my pity with Janine is quite limited, whatever they say in the commentary.

Yes, my pity is also limited.. I agree with besley, the team´s outrage seems a bit over played. I mean, Janine is not the kind of gullible woman who completely loses her head over a handsome man - or who´d buy that he proposes to her after a month of chaste relationship. In what AU does that happen? ^^
He hurt her and it wasn´t necessary, but she recovered quite quickly and got even.. so I don´t get the fuss. It´s almost as if they want to see a fragile broken thing in her..

Last edited by Zatoichi (November 6, 2014 10:54 am)

SusiGo · November 6, 2014 11:02 am

And then there is this - we know what it means in this show when a woman is shown with the horns - Sherlock, you have been played:

Zatoichi · November 6, 2014 11:09 am

I wouldn´t put too much weight on stills like this. The composition looks relevant if framed like the above example, but in the show it´s only split seconds. I doubt they want to say anything with it..

Liberty · November 6, 2014 5:48 pm

nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I meant in A Case of Identity (the bit I'm quoting). It's not Holmes who is lying there, but the stepfather of the girl. Holmes appears to be incensed with rage that the stepfather would fake a relationship and a proposal, for his own gain. But in the next line, it appears that he could also be amused at terrifying the guy "There's a cold-blooded scoundrel!" said Holmes, laughing as he threw himself down into his chair once more. But Steven concentrates on his outrage, and what I meant was that if he'd read the stories in order, and saw Holmes as somebody who would be outraged at treating a woman like that, then he could well be shocked at how Holmes acts in the Milverton story.

Personally I would never choose The Case of Identity as a proof of Holmes´ honorable behaviour to women because in that story Holmes carelessly decides not to inform his client that she was decieved with the words:

"If I tell her she will not believe me. You may remember the old Persian saying, 'There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub, and danger also for whoso snatcheth a delusion from a woman.' There is as much sense in Hafiz as in Horace, and as much knowledge of the world."

(BBC Sherlock was much, much more considerate towards the same woman in TEH nad informed her right away that she was being had. He was much more honorable in comparison with the original).

Also, I found Steven´s outrage that Doyle made Sherlock into a liar a strange one - when he himself made Sherlock into a murderer.

He thought that Doyle intended Sherlock to be a murderer too though - he believed that Watson had covered up for Holmes when he was writing about Milverton's death!

And, of course, Steven was young when these stories made an impression - twelve, perhaps? I think it's a bit odd that he was so outraged too, but I also think it's very sweet for a boy of that age . But obviously he's retained some of that view into adulthood.

Yes, he does make Sherlock more honourable in some ways, and makes Janine more assertive too. I don't think Janine ever does really fall for it - she was basically arranging a meeting between Sherlock and Magnussen, and she knew the proposal was fake (or she'd think they were engaged when she visited him in hospital!). So she's not a poor, pathetic victim (although I do think she's a little bit taken in, perhaps because Sherlock genuinely likes her, and she genuinely feels warmly towards him too) and Steven kind of makes it up to her, by letting her get her revenge. But he does leave in the actual betrayal, and makes it unnecessary.

(What would have been ideal would have been if Janine had confronted him at the beginning - but, of course, Moftiss wouldn't then have been able to put the engagement story in!)

Last edited by Liberty (November 6, 2014 7:03 pm)

Liberty · November 6, 2014 6:03 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I'm quoting because I was answering your posts out of order, and it didn't make sense! No, if you watch the whole scene, Sherlock is explaining to John how he is going to get into the office - the problems with the identity card and so on - and shows him his plan. He thinks its clever! Sherlock is showing him the proposal as a method for getting into the office.

But don´t you realise? The scene is so funny only because John doesn´t get it to the very last moment that Sherlock´s method of breaking into the office is his engagement. It is very obvious he didn´t avait THAT - he only realises when they enter the lift.
Exactly. I guess you could say that Sherlock's clever explanation of how to get into CAM's office once again impresses John so much (we've seen this before, haven't we?) that he's kind of unable to make the connection when Sherlock suddenly presents the ring to Janine. To John that's a completely different topic, all of a sudden. He's not following, he doesn't get it. He's just surprised and can't believe that Sherlock proposes to Janine right then and there.

I think it dawns on him, but he can't quite believe what he's seeing initially! As soon as Sherlock stops talking, John confirms that it's Janine, and immediately asks "Did you just get engaged to break into an office?", even before they get into the lift - it's very quick, so he has to be thinking about what's going on while Sherlock is doing it. And Sherlock has been explaining as he goes along - "Human error. I've been shopping" (patting the box), etc. - he makes it clear that the engagement ring is part of the plan to get in. And on top of that, it's rather like previous scenes where John has watched Sherlock "act" to get into a building. So I think we're seeing John looking flabbergasted again, but not in a good, smiling way - instead of being pleased that Sherlock is happy, he's a little bit shocked that Sherlock would use somebody in that way. (Maybe he shouldn't be surprised as it is a rather Sherlockian thing to do ... but John HAD been seeing a softer side of Sherlock recently).

What I'm sure I don't see is John being relieved/pleased that it's a ruse (i.e. the jealousy is averted).

Last edited by Liberty (November 6, 2014 6:10 pm)

besleybean · November 6, 2014 9:43 pm

No,. he's truly outraged by what Sherlock does.

nakahara · November 7, 2014 12:03 pm

Liberty wrote:
I think it dawns on him, but he can't quite believe what he's seeing initially! As soon as Sherlock stops talking, John confirms that it's Janine, and immediately asks "Did you just get engaged to break into an office?", even before they get into the lift - it's very quick, so he has to be thinking about what's going on while Sherlock is doing it. And Sherlock has been explaining as he goes along - "Human error. I've been shopping" (patting the box), etc. - he makes it clear that the engagement ring is part of the plan to get in. And on top of that, it's rather like previous scenes where John has watched Sherlock "act" to get into a building. So I think we're seeing John looking flabbergasted again, but not in a good, smiling way - instead of being pleased that Sherlock is happy, he's a little bit shocked that Sherlock would use somebody in that way. (Maybe he shouldn't be surprised as it is a rather Sherlockian thing to do ... but John HAD been seeing a softer side of Sherlock recently).

What I'm sure I don't see is John being relieved/pleased that it's a ruse (i.e. the jealousy is averted).

To me it rather seems that nothing dawns on John when Sherlock first produces the ring out of his pocket. He stares at the ring full of confusion and probably even jealousy, but even his note: "That was Janine." sounds to me as: "What the f*** had just happened?" It´s only after Sherlock carelessly responds to him: "=10pt=10pt=11pt=10pt=11pt=10PTYes, of course it was Janine. She’s Magnussen’s PA. That’s the whole point." that he comprehends what was Sherlock´s plan (at that happens exactly when they are entering the lift). And only when he breaths out: "Jesus!", the full realisation comes to him.
I doubt the cryptic remarks like "Human error. I´ve been shopping." said much to him before he heard Sherlock´s full explanation.

Liberty wrote:
He thought that Doyle intended Sherlock to be a murderer too though - he believed that Watson had covered up for Holmes when he was writing about Milverton's death!

While it´s true that the original story has a plot hole big as a Titanic in its storyline which encourages this reading of the story (Sherlock and John who burgled CAM´s office barely escape from his servants after he is shot, but the woman who actually shot him disappears as if she never existed - despite being hindered by her lack of physical training and by her womanly dress), it´s still bold to say that Doyle intended for Holmes to become a murderer.

By the same logic we could argue that Watson was a woman and that the Elementary is the only adaptation which got it right - because the writer Rex Stout believed and spread that theory.

Or we could swear that Moriarty a criminal mastermind was in fact a thing conjured by Holmes himself - original Dr. Watson never saw Moriarty by his own eyes and was never actually involved any dangerous situation caused by the criminal professor, he was only informed by Holmes that they are pursued by him and that Moriarty´s cronies are after him. There are whole novels playing with the idea, most famous of them probably the "The Seven-Per-Cent Solution" by Nicholas Meyer. Yet I doubt we could say that Doyle intended that.

So Steven is just skating around the fact that it was him and only him who made Sherlock into a murderer.

Liberty · November 7, 2014 5:42 pm

I don't think he guesses the plan before he sees it (but I do think that he knows that what Sherlock is doing is trying to get into the office - Sherlock tells him that. And "I've been shopping" isn't particularly cryptic because he pats the ring - he's telling John that he bought the ring to break into the office). But it does dawn on John as he sees it - why would he ask if the engagement was fake if he believed it was real? He can see it's fake ... and I think it's almost a rhetorical question - he knows it was Janine (he saw her) and he knows the engagement was fake - he's just processing it!

I don't think he ever really believes Sherlock and Janine are engaged (in which case "Congratulations" would have been more appropriate!), so no moment when you could tell if he was jealous or not. I think he's genuinely taken aback. But it's not a big deal .

To be fair to Steven Moffat, I think Mark Gatiss agreed with him about the murder. So it's not just him. And I do think it fits with their explanation of how they see the character - that he will use extreme methods if necessary. They make an interesting comment about the Mary in the HLV commentary - something about Mary knowing that the only way to deal with Magnussen is to shoot him in the face, but Sherlock takes longer to realise that. Anyway, I feel I have to accept that "Sherlock" is Moftiss fanfic (very good fanfic!) rather than pure Doyle, and I usually really like it. I often prefer it to Doyle, actually.

(I don't think Sherlock is completely amoral, but I think his morality is a little different from other people's. Look at his lines about Billy Kincaid - he thought the lives saved outweighed a few murders. If that's the way he thinks, then murdering Magnussen makes sense for him).

Last edited by Liberty (November 7, 2014 7:05 pm)

Liberty · November 8, 2014 7:52 am

Arianne de Vere's transcript is up - I'll just post it here as it's more accurate and complete than mine. I was sure I heard "his first girl" rather than "his first go", but I suppose the meaning is the same. Or maybe not, if the former could mean he'd had a boyfriend, but the latter meant she was his first of any sex? Not much difference though.

(Everyone cracks up at John’s face when Janine squeals from the bathroom.)
Mark: “He just can’t believe it! But he is actually pleased for him.”
Steven: “Remember the very first cut? It made him look as if he was jealous.”
Mark: “Which was not a good idea.”
Steven: “[We were] saying, ‘No, no, no, he’s thrilled, but a little bit “What?! Out of nowhere, you’ve got the really hot girl from the wedding”!’”
Mark: “Because Sherlock talks about it as if he’s just bought a new pair of shoes.”
Steven: “I love the way Martin plays this, ’cause we get through all the exposition with Martin just waiting: ‘When can I ask about the girl?’ But he’s one of the few actors in the world good enough, Martin Freeman, to be able to make it clear that he’s not listening to the person who’s speaking. He’s just blanking the whole thing.”
Mark: “Also a great way to hide exposition.”
Steven: “[And] Sherlock’s good-natured attempt at sounding normal!”
Mark: “[John] doesn’t know what to do with himself!”
(The commentators can’t stop laughing at every shot of John’s facial expressions.)
Una: “[Yasmine] was so good.”
Steven: “And very lovely, I have to say. Sherlock’s done well for himself at his first go, really.”
Mark: “‘His First Go’! That was the original title(!)”
(Stephen and Mark cackle raucously.)
Sue: “The prequel!”
Steven: “And [John’s] ‘Go on, my son,’ reaction to the kiss.”
(Sherlock and Janine kiss, and initially John reacts in shock and turns away but then gives a small nod.)
Steven: “The little nod, there. ‘Yeah, that’s it, yes. Good work, Sherlock’.”
Mark: “[Sherlock]’s definitely kissing her ... but then ...”
(As Sherlock’s smile drops)
Steven: “Ooh. The little romantic part of you wants it to be true. ‘Wouldn’t it be nice, wouldn’t he be a happier man if he just had a nice girlfriend?’ But of course he hasn’t, because he’s evil!”
Sue: “Looking at the Twitter feed, not everyone wanted it to be true!”
Steven: “Ah, Twitter is not the audience.”

Sherlock's "good-natured attempt at sounding normal" is when he says he and Janine are in a good place.

Last edited by Liberty (November 8, 2014 8:22 am)