@Susi. So did you not mean this, do you think the team are lying to us, or what?!
@ nakahara. I get that. But still, the last part of the conversation on the realationship is about 'chairs, sitting' etc for the dinner...to me, John just cannot quite get to grips with it.

Last edited by besleybean (November 2, 2014 7:16 pm)

Also, I actually think Benedict was just having a laugh.

SusiGo wrote:

I still did not have the chance the hear the commentaries but I read that Steven also said (I am paraphrasing) that in the very moment of the Sherlolly kiss people knew that this theory had to be bullshit. 

Yes, he does, and also says that although it would be nice it's definitely not going to happen (paraphrasing again). 
 

They also said that people still ask which of the three explanations is the real one.  And someone (I think it's Steven) says that if they ask he always says it's the middle one!

The comment about the scene being deliberately shot to NOT show jealousy - I just want to point out again that that's not me - it comes from the commentary!  But I'll be honest, I find HLV quite dark and distressing at times, and I also have some issues with John in S3 and that leads me to MUCH preferring the explanation that John is pleased for Sherlock - something I see as sweet, caring and heartwarming before all the awful stuff that follows. 

Here's a lighter one, but still vaguely relevant to this thread - we finally find out why Mrs Hudson ships them .   This is when John tells her he's getting married ...

Mark: Mrs Hudson does have plenty of evidence now that John isn't gay and yet always comes back to the idea that he is.  She just wills it to happen.

Steven: I think she spends too much time on the internet.  

Steven (talking about the gay jokes)This is more or less the last hurrah for this joke, isn't it, because it's getting very boring.  But you're right, yes ...

Una: I think she thinks if they're gay, she'll see more of them.

(Lots of laughing during this segment - it's not as serious as it looks when I've written it out).  That scene has bothered me because regardless of what John's orientation might be, it's kind of rude to keep denying his identification.   But I think Mrs Hudson's reason is rather sweet, bless her .

 

Last edited by Liberty (November 2, 2014 8:51 pm)

It is a rather "definite" no to John being gay.
Which not even the most hard-boiled Johnlocker has ever claimed to be true. 

Not only Mrs Hudson believes this or alludes to it in one way or other but Irene, Mycroft, Moriarty, the guys at the Crosskeys Inn, Kitty Riley, Janine, Magnussen, did I forget anyone?

Well, they aren't, are they?  Love is a dangerous disadvantage, and all that.  And he never does have any real love affairs - Irene is all unresolved sexual tension (on screen, at least) and Janine is for a case.  There are no others (male or female).   I think that scene may still be at the point where they hadn't decided on his sexuality.  My guess is that it was ASIB that pushed the issue forward a bit (because Steven wanted him to fall for Irene).   But I don't think we're going to see it become his "area" in the series - even the possible liaison with Janine (in the commentary) was supposed to be after he "retired". 

(I think the others have different motivations/viewpoints - it's just Mrs Hudson who takes a particularly motherly angle).
 

Last edited by Liberty (November 2, 2014 10:47 pm)

By last hurrah for that joke...I think they specifically mean the same ole Mrs H thinks they are a couple thing...which yes...so many times now. Not the are they gay thing....devils advocate could say - the last hurrah could also work the other way...with it being confirmed.

They would be rather stupid to shut down that ship for sure wouldn't they? It's a rather large part of the show and fandom.

Last edited by lil (November 3, 2014 12:32 am)

Lil, I'm sure the ship will continue to sail regardless of the gay jokes!   I suspect we'll still see the odd reference, but it looks like Mrs Hudson might stop, at least, and possibly the others.  It is wearing a bit thin!

tonnaree wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Don't some think he's gay but closeted or in denial?  Especially if gay includes bi (which it seem to, here).

It does confirm that Mrs Hudson has no evidence (which we kind of know - Sherlock and John are not "in a relationship", John dates women, etc.) but makes it up because she wants to believe it.   But I like her explanation .. I know I've had those talks with other mothers of sons.  There's a bit of an old-fashioned idea that if your sons are gay you get to keep them closer, so it's something you might kind of hope for, as a mother, and Mrs Hudson seems to be playing a mothering role here.
 

Gay does not include Bi.  Bisexual is it's own individual orientation. And I'm not just saying this because of the show.  Bisexuality is misunderstood and ignored by a very large segment of society.

I mean that "gay" sometimes does include "bi" when people are using the word - it depends on the context.  (For instance, John's "I'm not gay" doesn't make sense unless it includes bi).  

(And yes, that is an issue - there are some sexualities which are badly represnted and shown - don't get me started on that!)

But the point was that Mrs Hudson completely makes it up, because it's something she wants to believe.  (In this case, she's not naming John's sexuality, but just assuming an attraction to men).   At the start, I thought she just assumed (two men living together), but as time goes on and it's been clear that they're not having sex with each other or dating other men she still persists - I liked that Una had an idea of why she would want it to be true.  And it's one that struck a chord with me ... and maybe some other mothers?

Last edited by Liberty (November 3, 2014 7:00 am)

lil wrote:

By last hurrah for that joke...I think they specifically mean the same ole Mrs H thinks they are a couple thing...which yes...so many times now. Not the are they gay thing....devils advocate could say - the last hurrah could also work the other way...with it being confirmed.

They would be rather stupid to shut down that ship for sure wouldn't they? It's a rather large part of the show and fandom.

Yes, lil, I think as a joke it has worn out. But it was never just meant as a joke. And in the whole of series 3 it was never played as a joke anymore with the one exception regarding Mrs Hudson quoted above.