@Susi.Well even if they are disappointed, they don't seem to be showing it.
They are, however, winning many awards, gaining tons of praise and scoring record numbers of viewings.
So somebody's happy with what they do.
@lil.  We have seen many straight relationships in the show...most of them with John.
We've only seen the gay landlords and  gay couple in Great Game so far...oh and reference to Harry.
Sherlock hasn't been linked with anybody...except Janine and that was fake.

Last edited by besleybean (November 2, 2014 4:57 pm)

Straight relationships? Lestrade Anderson Donovan...all adulterous...Harry gay and separated...Irene@ her gf Kate gay but Irene falling for a man..John..various women..and a messed up marriage..the gay married to a man cheating with a gf and attracted to Mary case...all the cases lol?....ummmm?
All pretty messy...and multi..like life?

@A lovely light, I feel the same, especially when I read the discussion here.
@bb, praise and awards have nothing to do with a gap between what the writers say about their intentions and about the feelings lots of fans have whilst watching the show.
@Liberty, could you describe the screenshots, where you see happiness and pride from John?

They did say something about Sherlock's "got it out of a book" comment too - I'll get the DVD on again in a while and see if I can tell you the exact words, rather than paraphrasing badly!  I think John believes Janine is in love with Sherlock because that's the picture he's been presented with - she acts lovingly towards him, they're in a relationship, she sleeps over, she's delighted at his proposal.   I think he just takes it at face value.

And about the public disagreeing ... I think Sue says Looking at the twitter feed, not everybody wanted it to be true (Sherlock and Janine).  And Steven says Twitter isn't the audience.  And some/many of the people who see jealousy will already have had an idea of Johnlock before even seeing the episode - it wasn't something new which this scene sparked off.  If I thought John was in love with Sherlock in that way, then yes, I might see jealousy because I'm expecting to see it.   It's really difficult to get away from your previous conceptions and expectations.  I know that after reading the post about jealousy I looked at the scene differently, but nothing had changed about that scene - it was just the ideas in my head that had changed.  I think that if people believe Johnlock is intended, then the correct interpretation is to see jealousy in that scene, so obviously people are going to see it.   But the writers are saying that the scene was shot to not show jealousy (which doesn't in itself prove Johnlock doesn't exist - John might just not be the jealous type - but it does take away that particular piece of evidence that I'd read about).  With different preconceptions, it's very easy to see what Steven is talking about, I think.

I'll see if I can transcribe some more bits later if I get the chance - it's really interesting.   And there are a couple of bits which have really disappointed me (I think they more or less confirm that the shot was "surgery"), so I get where you're coming from if this is telling you something you don't want to know!  But there is lots of good stuff too.

@Mrs House, I'm no good at screenshots (or describing them), but if you watch it, John has a rather open, smiling, puzzled, almost goofy expression a lot of the time.  If you take away your initial expectations (I think I expect him to feel displaced, and he's certainly rather awkward at 221B, his old home), yes you can see.   Steven describes it as "Go on, my son"! (I'm proud of you).  But there doesn't seem to be any ill-feeling towards either Sherlock or Janine - warmth and fondness towards to Sherlock maybe?

Last edited by Liberty (November 2, 2014 5:33 pm)

But when you think of it, it does make sense that John, who knows Sherlock hasn't had any sexual relationships, suddenly sees him with a stunning, affectionate, sexy woman - of course one of his reactions would be to be pleased for him, and one would be to be impressed that he got such a catch! 

Liberty wrote:

But when you think of it, it does make sense that John, who knows Sherlock hasn't had any sexual relationships, suddenly sees him with a stunning, affectionate, sexy woman - of course one of his reactions would be to be pleased for him, and one would be to be impressed that he got such a catch! 

 
Well, the important little word here is "would" isn't it? It would amongst good friends, but Martin didn't play it like that, not a bit.

Liberty, i saw that episode before i had any idea that the Johnlock ship even exists (heck, as a big Star Trek fan i had no idea about the Kirk/Spaock ship till recently), not only that i don't ship it. And i still saw jealousy. And i still saw no hapiness and "go on my son" from John. Not a bit. 

I think i have to choose between enjoying this show from what i undertsand from it or being puzzled and trying to understand from every interview what the writers and actors are telling but in the process ruining my feeling for this series. Because no way that a skilled and so serious actor like Martin would not be able to show happiness if he has to ... Either the communication between the director -writers - actors  doesn't function or they are all bad at it and Sherlock is only garbage. 
 

Liberty wrote:

And about the public disagreeing ... I think Sue says Looking at the twitter feed, not everybody wanted it to be true (Sherlock and Janine).  And Steven says Twitter isn't the audience.  And some/many of the people who see jealousy will already have had an idea of Johnlock before even seeing the episode - it wasn't something new which this scene sparked off.  If I thought John was in love with Sherlock in that way, then yes, I might see jealousy because I'm expecting to see it.   It's really difficult to get away from your previous conceptions and expectations.  I know that after reading the post about jealousy I looked at the scene differently, but nothing had changed about that scene - it was just the ideas in my head that had changed.  I think that if people believe Johnlock is intended, then the correct interpretation is to see jealousy in that scene, so obviously people are going to see it.   But the writers are saying that the scene was shot to not show jealousy (which doesn't in itself prove Johnlock doesn't exist - John might just not be the jealous type - but it does take away that particular piece of evidence that I'd read about).  With different preconceptions, it's very easy to see what Steven is talking about, I think.

This is getting rather absurd now, because seriously: You just can't look at a single scene without taking into account the things that were shown in eight previous episodes. Of course people have certain expectations after eight episodes, Johnlock or no Johnlock! Things have been established, and you just can't ignore those things. This has nothing to do with wanting things to be true or not. Because then you could also say that people who don't see Johnlock at all or don't want it to happen will never see something like jealousy in a scene like this one and of course will see a John who is happy and thrilled for Sherlock.  
If we are talking about preconceptions, then please: Preconceptions go both ways.


 

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 2, 2014 6:21 pm)

Well, that's kind of what I'm saying Solar - that we all have our preconceptions, and it's impossible to see the scene without them. 

I think it's a shame to dismiss it as bad acting, bad communication, etc.  The post I read was not about acting, if I remember, but about the way the scene was filmed (the colour green representing jealousy, etc.)  The film-makers were more than happy with what Martin did, and they actually compliment his acting during that section (by saying how he can show that he's not listening to Sherlock talking about Magnusson).   If I compare it to another scene where I do see jealousy - the scene where Sherlock watches Martin talking to Sholto - it's quite different.  Both are surprised, but Sherlock is unsmiling, frowning - I mean he LOOKS jealous, angry almost.  Martin is smiling, looks unbelieving, but gradually takes it in.   Sherlock is clearly pissed off.   Martin is ... astonished (Sherlock with a girfriend!).   Maybe it was difficult for him to convey being pleased for Sherlock while also being so astonished, but I think it's subtly there, particularly as he's smiling rather than frowning. 

SusiGo wrote:

I expect the creators to be terribly disappointed that so many fans constantly get them wrong and only so few get their true intentions.

Please note the irony here.