Liberty wrote:

There's more than that - apparently the last scene with Janine was going to have a nicer ending, with it being implied that Sherlock would go and live with her in the cottage in the end.  But it was changed, because it let Sherlock off the hook.

Oh my, now that just made me laugh out loud. Seriously...? I'd really love to know how they were planning to show this to us in a convincing way that wouldn't make us all scream "Mind palace, mind palace!".
Did they say when exactly Sherlock would have gone to live in the cottage with her? This more sounds like a ironic comment he would have made in order to reconcile Janine with him for real, and not because he really intended to share a cottage with her. The whole idea sounds a bit ridiculous to me, although it would have been canon in some way.

And I'm afraid I still see jealousy there, but I guess that's the thing with emotions: they aren't always easy to grasp, and I suppose when I look at someone displaying an emotion I would identify as anger, someone else might look at that same person and identify the emotion as, let's say, despair.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 2, 2014 10:57 am)

SolarSystem wrote:

Did they say when exactly Sherlock would have gone to live in the cottage with her? This more sounds like a ironic comment he would have made in order to reconcile Janine with him for real, and not because he really intended to share a cottage with her. The whole idea sounds a bit ridiculous to me, although it would have been canon in some way.
 

(Again, apologies for transcription mistakes!)

Steven:  This was an interesting scene, because I mean I knew that ... one thing I thought, she had to kick back at him. I didn't want her to be just the sorrowing woman.  In the original, do you remember, at the end of the scene we had her leaving and they almost make up?  She sort of says, look, we're obviously not getting married, but if no-one wants us at the age of 60 shall we just get together?  And that sort of ties in with the idea of the cottage that he's going to one day live in.  

Mark: Well, she says she's bought a cottage on the Sussex Downs with the money. And he says "Keep the beehives".  But it was too ...

Steven: It got off the hook.  I didn't like the idea that he'd got off the hook.  He should be made to suffer.

There's more there, but I'll probably post something in Janine's thread later.  They say, jokingly, that she'll be back - everyone is!  But yes, it would have been quite a nice nod to canon ... and leaving out him saying to keep the beehives actually made it seem sinister that she was getting rid of them.

And I agree about the difficulty of interpreting emotions.  There's also the fact that there isn't one single truth - it's a team of people making these episodes, and although they're going along the same lines they might not entirely coincide.   I'm never sure about Sherlock sleeping with Irene in Karachi, for instance - whether that's just Benedict's view, or everybody's view. (I'm warming to the idea, though, after the reading the Elle interview - it's pretty amusing to think of him shaving parts and watching porn in preparation for going out there!). 
 

God no, I just hope it would be a purely practical or needing company arrangement...
I hope he did not sleep with Irene in Karachi and that's not what CAM is alluding to...

I just think he doesn't do relationships...with anybody.

I just have to say that if they did not want John to read as jealous in the scene with Janine they should have given Martin different notes.

tonnaree wrote:

I just have to say that if they did not want John to read as jealous in the scene with Janine they should have given Martin different notes.

 
Exactly, tonnaree. It feels for me like different shows when I read about John being happy. What?? There's just one shot where he tries a feeble smile and compared to Martins genuine smile (oh god, love his smile so much...did I ever mention I love his smile?) it's nothing but fake for me.

Well, he's obviously not going to do that while we're watching the show.  But I don't think it's an idea out of nowhere - I think that at the end of TSOT in particular there is a sense of him being aware of what he's giving up by being "Sherlock".  He's surrounded by people and their imperfect relationships in a world that he has chosen not to be part of.  I think with Janine also, there's a sense of regret - he does realise at the end that they could have been friends, at least, and worked together, but he has chosen to use her in a very cold, calculating way.   Those barriers to emotion/love/sex maybe do make him function better intellectually, but they don't make him happier.   So I can see what Mark is saying there.    It's what you might want for somebody you care about. 

Tonnaree, it could be that they just haven't done the scene very well, but try watching it again with what the writers said in mind ... I did and I could really see amusement, puzzlement and possibly even pride (in Sherlock getting the gorgeous girl).  

I much prefer the idea of John feeling pleased for Sherlock (in terms of their relationship and John's character).  Sexual jealousy would be rather uncalled for there, when John has recently married somebody else.    John being pleased for Sherlock is selfless and caring. 

I personally just think John is shocked and unbelieving.

Liberty wrote:

Tonnaree, it could be that they just haven't done the scene very well, but try watching it again with what the writers said in mind ... I did and I could really see amusement, puzzlement and possibly even pride (in Sherlock getting the gorgeous girl).

I think it's rather unfortunate if you need to know what the writers say about the meaning of a scene in order to recognize it yourself. Let's not forget that a huge part of the audience doesn't read interviews or listen to audio commentaries - so do they all get it wrong when they see John as being jealous in that scene?
 

I expect the creators to be terribly disappointed that so many fans constantly get them wrong and only so few get their true intentions.