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July 29, 2012 8:12 pm  #81


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Actually, I went to a serious Sherlockian meeting the other day (y'know, one of those ones where everyone's read the canon inside out a million times) and one of the talks was titled Holmes and Women, pretty much discussing this very topic but with direct canon references and debating whether Holmes is so mistrustful of women because he's had his heart broken in the past or some other theory, and gave instances which show he's not the emotionless machine he likes to make himself out to be.

Anyway, there wasn't particularly a definite conclusion, the jury's still out as they say, but it's certainly a valid discussion to have, and they did touch on the question of whether Holmes might be gay, or the closest thing you could get in Victorian times which would be a repressed homosexual...considering the amount of genuine emotion and sentiment he has towards Watson. And yes, it is canon! He does care very deeply about Watson and is actually a lot nicer to him in some respects than our young Sherlock, probably because he's matured slightly.

If you enjoy "shipping" Sherlock and John then I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy them holding hands in Charles Augustus Milverton, or the Three Garribeds where Watson gets shot at and Holmes gets rather emotional over it. GO READ! 


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July 29, 2012 8:18 pm  #82


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Although in the canon Sherlock is really terribly rude to Watson at times. He does seem to put him down unjustifiably at times.


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July 29, 2012 8:22 pm  #83


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Haha, that's true as well. I guess some things never change! He still calls him stupid and idiotic etc. And I love it when he does something then blames it on Watson, makes me laugh so much...like when he knocked over that vase because he was trying to make the suspects think he was ill and not up to the job...can't remember the story now....he just knocks it over on purpose then goes "Watson, how clumsy!" and Watson just accepts it and takes the blame.


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July 29, 2012 8:36 pm  #84


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Haha, that's true as well. I guess some things never change! He still calls him stupid and idiotic etc. And I love it when he does something then blames it on Watson, makes me laugh so much...like when he knocked over that vase because he was trying to make the suspects think he was ill and not up to the job...can't remember the story now....he just knocks it over on purpose then goes "Watson, how clumsy!" and Watson just accepts it and takes the blame.

John is really passive sometimes...

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

If you enjoy "shipping" Sherlock and John then I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy them holding hands in Charles Augustus Milverton, or the Three Garribeds where Watson gets shot at and Holmes gets rather emotional over it. GO READ! 

Yay! Now I have to go find those! 

 

July 29, 2012 11:13 pm  #85


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

AreYouTryingToDeduceMe wrote:

Hi guys, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, (don't kill me, I'm new haha) but in terms of BBC's Sherlock, I reckon something slightly fishy had been going on in the past between Sherlock and...Sally Donovan. I know, I know, hold your laughter till the end, but think about it. Particularly when she's talking to John about him when they first meet: "Don't trust him. He'll always let you down." Also, it explains how she treats him so horribly all the time, y'know, calling him 'freak' and all that. I know it's a very long shot, but you know what they say; Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I don't know. Anything's possible. Does she seem like his..... type? This is a woman who hooked up with that f***ing Anderson. I mean, really. Would any guy with a brain in his head hook up with a woman who called him Freak in front of everyone he knows?  Not any guy with any self-respect, and we know Sherlock, for all his faults and psychological short-comings, has no lack of self-respect.

Maybe, conversely, she's such a sh** to him because he turned her down at one point. Maybe she went after him and he looked down his nose at her and said, "You. Repel. Me."  which, you have to admit, is a good enough line to have been used more than once. I mean, if you want a woman to get the hell away from you and stay away, that line would do it.  In that way, she could have been scorned, I suppose.

 

July 29, 2012 11:17 pm  #86


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

Although in the canon Sherlock is really terribly rude to Watson at times. He does seem to put him down unjustifiably at times. 

He does that in this new modern canon as well. I sit and cringe for poor John. And he also treats John terribly at times-- for instance, in Hound, putting him through that terrifying experiment to try out his theory on an ordinary mind. Good God! I would have taken a knife and filleted him if he'd tried that crap on me. Sometimes I think John is altogether too patient and kind. In Belgravia, when he punched Sherlock in the face and then in the gut and then got him in a strangle hold--- repressed anger much?  Yes.

 

July 29, 2012 11:21 pm  #87


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Arya wrote:

John is really passive sometimes...

I don't think so. I think he's just backing up his man. Playing along. Sherlock knows he can pull any kind of trick/crap on someone, and John will NOT stand there and challenge him on it. John will never say, "Stop lying!" or, "What in hell are you talking about? That never happened!" in front of anyone else. In fact, we've even seen John embellish what Sherlock's doing/saying, not just supporting but adding to the believability of it. I don't see this as passive. I think it's a decision he's made, in order to stay in Sherlock's employ and good graces, and in order for the F-U-N to continue. He gets off on it, just as Sherlock does. The two of them are a couple made in heaven.

 

July 29, 2012 11:22 pm  #88


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

ancientsgate wrote:

Arya wrote:

John is really passive sometimes...

I don't think so. I think he's just backing up his man. Playing along. Sherlock knows he can pull any kind of trick/crap on someone, and John will NOT stand there and challenge him on it. John will never say, "Stop lying!" or, "What in hell are you talking about? That never happened!" in front of anyone else. In fact, we've even seen John embellish what Sherlock's doing/saying, not just supporting but adding to the believability of it. I don't see this as passive. I think it's a decision he's made, in order to stay in Sherlock's employ and good graces, and in order for the F-U-N to continue. He gets off on it, just as Sherlock does. The two of them are a couple made in heaven.

Answering myself again here, for crying out loud. But anyway, yeah, he can be passive in social/personal interactions, come to think of it. He was passive all throughout that Belgravia Christmas scene. Sherlock deserved a punch in the eye, or for John to take Nobody and get out of there and go somewhere else, just leave. But he stood and took it.  That was passive, you're right about that.

 

July 30, 2012 1:57 am  #89


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Uh, some interesting liens from yet another Gatiss interview about his favourite Holmes adaptation, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970):

The relationship between Sherlock and Watson is treated beautifully; Sherlock effectively falls in love with him in the film, but it's so desperately unspoken. There's an amazing scene where, to get out of a situation where a Russian ballerina wants Sherlock to father her child, he claims Watson and he are gay. Watson is outraged and, when he calms down, speaks of the women all over the world who could attest to his sexuality. He says to Sherlock, "You do too, don't you?" Holmes is silent, and Watson says, "Am I being presumptuous? There have been women, haven't there?" Holmes says, "The answer is yes – you are being presumptuous." Sensational.

 

July 30, 2012 2:32 am  #90


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Amazing 

Thought this might add to the discussion. Read the last bit.
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/07/m-jonny-lee-miller-sherlocks-benedict-cumberbatch-very-supportive-of-elementary.html
So much for speculation in Elementary. So out of character, too 

Last edited by Arya (July 30, 2012 2:33 am)

 

July 30, 2012 2:44 am  #91


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

The Doctor wrote:

Uh, some interesting liens from yet another Gatiss interview about his favourite Holmes adaptation, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970):

The relationship between Sherlock and Watson is treated beautifully; Sherlock effectively falls in love with him in the film, but it's so desperately unspoken. There's an amazing scene where, to get out of a situation where a Russian ballerina wants Sherlock to father her child, he claims Watson and he are gay. Watson is outraged and, when he calms down, speaks of the women all over the world who could attest to his sexuality. He says to Sherlock, "You do too, don't you?" Holmes is silent, and Watson says, "Am I being presumptuous? There have been women, haven't there?" Holmes says, "The answer is yes – you are being presumptuous." Sensational.

OMG. I *must see* this film. Can I? Where can I? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

OK, I went to the internet, and it looks as though it can be seen at amazon's prime instant  videos thingie. I will look more into this later. Wow. I had never heard of this one before.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EYSCF6/ref=atv_feed_catalog?tag=weblab-treatment-20

 

July 30, 2012 6:50 am  #92


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

KeepersPrice wrote:

Come on Kazza - let us enjoy our hypothetical fun.  It's what the Forum is for, isn't it? I'm not bored with this topic.  I like seeing everyone's viewpoint.  I don't need theirs to match mine and I don't always need everything to be canon since the show is 'based' on it but is not the actual canon.

Keep posting your thoughts everyone.  we're having fun here - at least I am.

"Fun" is a very subjective thing. And yes a forum IS for posting opinions. Which is what I have done. And yet each time I do I have someone tell me what I should & should not post.
Should I take it then that everyone may have an opinion & post as they choose except when it is not in line with the more prolific posters? Or is it simply that I may not post as I choose because I don't think like others do?
That is purely a hypothetical question for those ready to type their answer for me; I don't need a reply at all.
We came to the forum to discuss Sherlock, the TV show. Part of that interest in the show is also tied up with the canon, something that the show creators tied the series to. Yes fine, a few members have said they have never read the originals, have no interest in the canon. That's fine, but you will not share the respect for the ACD stories that I & others have and you will not have the same understanding regarding this series. This makes it very hard for you to relate to many things about the show. There is NO shortcut to knowledge. Which is WHY I continually post that people should read the canon. Your choice not to removes you from debates & discussions with me when it comes to theories etc. We won't be on the same wavelength; you will not have the understanding of the whole concept that I fell in love with years ago & so discussion is futile. Your loss; I've tried.

To make myself completely clear regarding my "bored" comment I shall dispense with the niceties that I should use in the forum.
I am bored with the subject because the underlying interest comes NOT from any need to explore the relationships of characters. I can surmise this by all other posts of the members who pursue this line. (Posts, more than any disguise, are self portraits.) No, mostly the interest in who loves who, who is gay, etc etc comes from a juvenile fascination; a teenage fangirl mentality. It is extremely repetitive throughout the whole forum and this has been noted, in posts by other members besides me.


So there you have it. Send your complaints in about my nasty manner etc because dammit, I just say things as plainly as can be so there is no ambiguity. No personal attacks, nothing directed at any individual & the only 'hurt' ones should be ideas. It is a pity that those who disagree with me haven't done likewise but it is water off a duck's back anyway.

And people wonder why I chuckle when someone else comes in stating " I am so much like Sherlock it's scary".... not even close my dears, not in the same ballpark.


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July 30, 2012 8:14 am  #93


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

kazza474 wrote:

["Fun" is a very subjective thing. And yes a forum IS for posting opinions. Which is what I have done. And yet each time I do I have someone tell me what I should & should not post.

I was told earlier today (on another thread) that I wasn't being pleasant. It just proves we're all passionate about this show and its characters, but in our own unique ways. And yes, our individual ideas of what's fun may differ widely-- there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, IMO, that's what our delete buttons are for. Delete, delete, delete. If any of us finds something boring or stupid (who does that sound like, lol), we can simply move on. Not everything everyone posts in this large forum is going to be interesting, fun, meaningful or even sound very smart to every single person reading; it just isn't possible. We need to adopt a live and let live attitude-- if we do, we'll all live longer or at least avoid an stomach ulcer.

....We came to the forum to discuss Sherlock, the TV show. Part of that interest in the show is also tied up with the canon, something that the show creators tied the series to.

That's part of YOUR interest, but not part of mine. I came here because of this modern 21st century BBC version Sherlock and John. I arrived with no knowledge of anything else--- not the ACD stories, not the previous movies over the decades, nothing. I knew about the deerstalker hat, the funny caped coat, the pipe, and the expression "no shit, Sherlock," and believe me when I tell ya, that's about all I knew.

So I need time to get up to speed. I did not grow up reading the original novels and stories. Never watched the movies, not even the recent RD Jr. movies. Just never went there. It took this current BBC incarnation to capture my interest. I have started reading the original canon stories, but I only have so many hours in the day. Pardon me for not quite yet having a full working knowledge of the Complete Sherlock Holmes Works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Yes fine, a few members have said they have never read the originals, have no interest in the canon. That's fine, but you will not share the respect for the ACD stories that I & others have and you will not have the same understanding regarding this series. This makes it very hard for you to relate to many things about the show. There is NO shortcut to knowledge. Which is WHY I continually post that people should read the canon. Your choice not to removes you from debates & discussions with me when it comes to theories etc. We won't be on the same wavelength; you will not have the understanding of the whole concept that I fell in love with years ago & so discussion is futile. Your loss; I've tried.

Well, I don't feel any "loss," sorry. I have been enriched by watching the show, getting involved in the fandom, and being here on this forum. I haven't suffered any kind of loss until *I* say I've suffered a loss, and if I HAVE suffered a loss, I've apparently completely missed it. I've found *loads* of stuff to discuss on the forum where my lack of knowledge and understanding of Classic Sherlock history has not hindered me or made me feel a "loss" at all. In fact, if you didn't point it out, I'd just say to myself, well, that's their experience and background in this, and I don't share that, but maybe my newbie eyes can lend a new perspective to what they're feeling. Such is the nature of a healthy discussion, is it not? To share? I don't quite have my PhD in Sherlock yet, but geeze, I gotta start somewhere, and I have to get through first grade before I'm ready for the PhD program. Give me and others like me a little time! I'm sorry, I didn't notice a sign on the forum's front door that said HOLDERS OF SHERLOCK PhD DEGREES ONLY PAST THIS POINT. I must have missed that.

I am bored with the subject because the underlying interest comes NOT from any need to explore the relationships of characters. I can surmise this by all other posts of the members who pursue this line. (Posts, more than any disguise, are self portraits.) No, mostly the interest in who loves who, who is gay, etc etc comes from a juvenile fascination; a teenage fangirl mentality. It is extremely repetitive throughout the whole forum and this has been noted, in posts by other members besides me.

So let me get this clear. You would rather we Johnlockers went away and left you in peace?  If this is not a safe place to talk about their possible relationship, then we can all pick up our skirts and clear out. Would you prefer that? When you post stuff like this, I gotta tell ya, it's very discouraging to me. I feel watched and singled out and less than; is that you intention? I'm in my early 60s, hardly anyone's fan!girl, and yes, damn it, I've been having F-U-N here. But if you and the others in charge of the forum want me gone, I will go. 'Cause who needs it? I also missed the sign on the front door that said NO JOHNLOCKERS ALLOWED-- was it there and I just didn't notice?

If this forum has to be a Johnlock-free zone, and a place where the show can only be discussed in the light of original canon, so be it. It's been pretty darned pleasant for me to be here, but I don't like dodging potshots about my area(s) of interest and my lack of ACD knowledge. And I presume that if I am no longer welcome here, someone official will tell me so privately. Thank you.

 

July 30, 2012 9:27 am  #94


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

I just deleted my former post because I thought it's better not to intervene here. 
Also have problems to express myself and don't want anybody to get me wrong.

Just one point: Everyone should feel free to post what he thinks and to read what he wants to.
And read the canon or leave it.
I can go to a gallery and try to get detailed information about an artist in order to understand his paintings better.
OR I can just go there and enjoy what I see.
Having watched Sherlock makes me want to know more about the canon. But I can also understand if others just want to enjoy!
Johnlocked is not mine, so I simply stop reading about it. Why should people stop writing about it?
There are also other threads I skip because I'm not interested. But please don't delete them!! 

Now I go back to other threads.... still wondering what's going wrong here!? 

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 30, 2012 9:27 am)


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July 30, 2012 10:00 am  #95


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

And breathe... Live and let live unless someone writes something which I am sure all of us would find unacceptable e.g. Racist comments. If we don't want to read/write the John-Lock type stuff then we can avoid it. Likewise we can read/write it if we want. I'm using the term 'we' generally here.

'I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.' Well...not quite to the death...but you get the gist.

Finally though, do start to read through the original stories if you get the time. It will add a whole new layer to your appreciation of this wonderful series if you do. The two are certainly not mutually exclusive.


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July 30, 2012 3:00 pm  #96


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

A couple of frivolous observations first -
Somebody posted that maybe Sherlock and Sally had been involved at one stage. Perhaps Sherlock dislikes Anderson so much because Sally left Sherlock for Anderson and it has nothing to do with Anderson's skill with forensic whatevers and is all about jealousy. No, I don't think so either. Had you fooled for a second though, didn't I? LOL

Any time I type ACD (for Arthur Conan Doyle) I really want to type AC/DC "It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock'n'roll". Aussie rock band reference. . Not a gay reference, by the way.

Kazza, love you, babe. Not really sure what a Moderator's job is, but do you have to read all topics and posts? Maybe, for the sake of your blood pressure, you need to avoid this one 

Okay, on to serious matters

Lupin wrote:

Holmes comes across as a misogynist in the canon. He has a strong distrust of women and believes they can be far more cunning and devious than men. There's nothing sexual about any story he is in where a woman has a prominent role, as far as I can remember, even in the romanticized encounter with Irene Adler in A Scandal in Bohemia.

In Victorian/Edwardian times, women were generally not included as important participants in adventure stories because of the innate sexism of the time (don't get me started...) so it is not surprising that there are so few women in the ACD (AC/DC hahaha) stories. Holmes (as opposed to Sherlock) doesn't appear to have a mother, sisters, aunties, female cousins, etc because women just don't figure in adventure stories except as the occasional damsel in distress.. Feel free to disagree and point out "women in adventure stories" and I may reconsider my argument. There was certainly no Sally Donovan or equivalent. Irene Adler had to be a femme fatale to figure in the story.

In the 21st century we sheilas have taken our RIGHTFUL place with the blokes at the centre of the action. This may be blasphemy, but having a female Watson in Elementary may be an interesting twist.

I'm afraid I've wandered a bit off-topic here. John is most certainly straight, tries to chat up Andrea, dates Sarah, etc. His constant protesting that he is not gay  is not denial but a fact. I can't count the number of times that people have assumed that I am a lesbian (that's fine...I know it's fine) because of the way I look (very short hair, bit on the chunky side!) and it does get a bit old. I have given up correcting people unless it is actually relevant.

As for Sherlock, well, who knows? I don't get a gay vibe from the relationship between him and John, I get a very intense friendship vibe, like two war buddies or, dare I say it, Joey and Chandler from Friends, John being Joey, with all the women-chasing, and Sherlock being Chandler, with the intelligence and social awkwardness, though Chandler does end up with Monica, so maybe there is hope for Sherlock yet.

In conclusion (ooh, how formal do I sound) I think that because of the attitude to women in ACD's time, women were not important to the stories. Attitudes have changed and the stories onscreen may change as well to accommodate modern sensibilities.

And Sherlock, as played by Ben, is too good looking not to been offered opportunities to explore his sexuallity with either male or female companions. I hope he has because it is all part of life's wonderful adventure. 


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July 30, 2012 9:47 pm  #97


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

hepzibah wrote:

In Victorian/Edwardian times, women were generally not included as important participants in adventure stories because of the innate sexism of the time (don't get me started...) so it is not surprising that there are so few women in the ACD (AC/DC hahaha) stories. Holmes (as opposed to Sherlock) doesn't appear to have a mother, sisters, aunties, female cousins, etc because women just don't figure in adventure stories except as the occasional damsel in distress.. Feel free to disagree and point out "women in adventure stories" and I may reconsider my argument. There was certainly no Sally Donovan or equivalent. Irene Adler had to be a femme fatale to figure in the story.

Irene had to be Irene rather than Isaac in ACD canon, because, well, she just had to be a woman. Had to be. Such were the times, as you say. Unfortunately, I think our modern version had to be female, as well. It would have been intriguing for Sherlock to meet another man of his intellectual equal, a sex worker with high-placed friends and acquaintances, shall we say, but how could the BBC have allowed that "I would have you on this desk right now, until you beg for mercy twice. Twice." if Irene had been Isaac? It just isn't done on TV. We've come a long way, baby, but our homophobic preferences still run deep, at least in the US, and especially among men. I can almost hear all the clicks of all those TVs turning off, if Irene had been Isaac. I think it would have been hot as hell (imagine John's face! It was a picture, even with a female Irene!) But this is neither here nor there; I'm just talking out loud here.


In the 21st century we sheilas have taken our RIGHTFUL place with the blokes at the centre of the action. This may be blasphemy, but having a female Watson in Elementary may be an interesting twist.

I will watch it. Once or twice. But they better convince me really really fast, or I'll be gagging too hard to stick around. American TV, especially mainline prime-time network (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox)  TV, is mostly unoriginal, badly written, sometimes badly acted, almost always totally aimed at the male 18-35 demographic, and leans, hard, on man on woman sex and man on man violence to fill the hour. If Elementary gives us anything more than that, I'll eat my (deerstalker) hat, followed by my Union Jack pillow. Srsly. I of course would love to be proven wrong.


I'm afraid I've wandered a bit off-topic here. John is most certainly straight, tries to chat up Andrea, dates Sarah, etc. His constant protesting that he is not gay  is not denial but a fact.

I believe he's always been straight as well. Lots of possibilities around that fact, of course, including the fact that he spent many years in military service, surrounded by men, and so who knows what his experiences (hurried and unloving as they may have been) have actually been. I also believe that often people can fall for a person, not a gender, if that makes any sense. Not everyone identifies as 100% straight or 100% gay; there can be shades of some degree of bisexuality in between (as the Kinsey scale talked about, decades ago). Certainly John has never in his life met a Sherlock, or very possibly, vice versa. But that's okay--  that's the stuff of fan fiction, a lot (most?) of which is very well written, very convincing, and is a great substitute for seeing any of that in the show (which I actually do not want-- to see it, that is).

As for Sherlock, well, who knows? I don't get a gay vibe from the relationship between him and John, I get a very intense friendship vibe

Oh, yes, me too. Very strong and intense, on both their parts. I love when they bicker and snark at each other, when John walks away from Sherlock instead of throttling him. Again, this is a perfect foundation for slashy fan fiction, for those who want to write it or read it. I presume there's some nice friendship stories in this fandom as well, although as yet I haven't had the time to look.

And Sherlock, as played by Ben, is too good looking not to been offered opportunities to explore his sexuality with either male or female companions. I hope he has because it is all part of life's wonderful adventure. 

He is a beauty, isn't he. I guess he's surprised at all the female attention he's getting, and I imagine he's getting a lot more male attention than he realizes as well. Some folks have to mature into their looks, and he undoubtedly has. Now here in his mid-30s, he's in his prime. Absolutely gorgeous. Someone smart, sharp, and wearing that greatcoat like a male model would have to carry a big stick everywhere they went, just to beat off the admirers. But maybe he [Sherlock] does--  his tongue, his words. Those are his big sticks.

This has been a long, interesting thread. My short answer to the original question is yes. And I hope the girl(s) have recovered by now. Dating him, even the much younger him, would certainly have been an experience. They might be being treated for PTSD now.

 

July 31, 2012 7:58 am  #98


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Having a female Watson, per se,  is not a problem for me. What is a problem is that the producers of Elementary seem to have decided to take a back foot with her potential right from the start. Watson comes back from Afghanistan wounded and damaged but he is not in the position of a medical practitioner struck off. Also Sherlock and he meet through a kind of happen chance, not by the direction of Sherlock's father (or any other member of his family). This means Watson in Elementary is a woman under the control immediately by a man (Sherlock's father).

In my opinion this is such a waste of an opportunity. They could have cast her as a war veteran ( there are women fighting over there are there not?) and kept her as her own person, not someone who is with Sherlock because, at the end of the day, it is a job. Anyone who knows the canon, even basically, will find the change from doctor/soldier to doctor/minder a strange one. Why was it decided not to have her as a war veteran? Is it too emotive a subject? Are they reluctant to show a female soldier having been in a combat role, albeit as a doctor, and subsequently injured?

One final thought. Why, if Joan Watson has been struck off for the death of a patient, would Sherlock's father want to assign her to watch over his vunerable son? Just asking. Not the most obvious choice, is it.

Irene is The Woman. If it were changed to The Man it would not have related to the canon in the same way and would have very likely have just led to an 'oh another bad guy' moment. So much of Sherlock's character would have remained hidden to us.

The relationship between John and Sherlock has developed more into one of very close brotherly love. John is a bit like the brother Sherlock doesn't have. Mycroft is very like Sherlock and certainly repressed in his display of feelings. To me John is like the sensible, worldy big brother who Sherlock loves, in a fraternal way, and who Sherlock frequently looks to for guidance. Sexual love is one thing but fraternal love is a very, very powerful force too. John too has a poor relationship with his sister (no other family is mentioned) so for him Sherlock is rather like the exciting but naughty at times younger brother.

Last edited by Davina (July 31, 2012 8:01 am)


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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July 31, 2012 8:51 am  #99


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

Having a female Watson, per se,  is not a problem for me. What is a problem is that the producers of Elementary seem to have decided to take a back foot with her potential right from the start. Watson comes back from Afghanistan wounded and damaged but he is not in the position of a medical practitioner struck off. Also Sherlock and he meet through a kind of happen chance, not by the direction of Sherlock's father (or any other member of his family). This means Watson in Elementary is a woman under the control immediately by a man (Sherlock's father).
In my opinion this is such a waste of an opportunity. They could have cast her as a war veteran ( there are women fighting over there are there not?) and kept her as her own person, not someone who is with Sherlock because, at the end of the day, it is a job. Anyone who knows the canon, even basically, will find the change from doctor/soldier to doctor/minder a strange one. Why was it decided not to have her as a war veteran? Is it too emotive a subject? Are they reluctant to show a female soldier having been in a combat role, albeit as a doctor, and subsequently injured?
One final thought. Why, if Joan Watson has been struck off for the death of a patient, would Sherlock's father want to assign her to watch over his vunerable son? Just asking. Not the most obvious choice, is it.

You know more about Elementary than I do. All I knew was that Watson is female and Asian. And that Sherlock is kinda goofy-looking. And he's a Brit, she's American, and they're in NY. Beyond that, I knew nothing.

I wonder why they kept him as a Brit? They changed everything else. Why isn't Sherlock female and American, while they're changing everything else? Good grief.

AFAIK, US female service members are fully involved in combat these days. They even fly combat aircraft. If there are still military regs against women in combat, I don't know about them So yes, we have lots of female vets.

With a show aimed at the 18-35 male demographic, which almost all US nighttime programming is, it's a natural decision to have women controlled by men. Even the women who have high-powered careers are portrayed as being at the mercy of their vaginas and breasts-- after all, they're nothing without their men. *rolls eyes* So if they show this Watson as under some guy's thumb, that wouldn't surprise me. If it weren't for some Sherlockian father, she'd be under Sherlock's thumb somehow. Or Mycroft's. Or Mrs. Hudson's male cousin once removed.

Stupid. Idiots. Morons. Dull, boring, predictable. Yes. Color me mostly hopeless about that show.

 

July 31, 2012 12:47 pm  #100


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

"John is a bit like the brother Sherlock doesn't have. "

I always wondered if Gattis and Moffat will one day explain the deviation from the canon. In the original, Sherlock and Mycroft have a great brotherly relationship, but in the show it is transfered to John instead. I wonder why? In the book the three of them went along just fine.
Then again, might have 'just' been an attempt to create more tension -it's what makes for riveting television!

And yes, I realise they have 20+ years left to end up where the canon starts ;)

 

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