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July 28, 2012 9:57 am  #61


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

That's interesting, Lupin.
I kept myself out of these threads until now, because I don't quite understand all these ideas of "Johnlock" or the question if SH ever had a girlfriend (or boyfriend).
I consider myself as an "opened" person and the actors (and so the characters) really attract me, no doubt, but still I cannot see all these discussions about the sexuality (or non-sexuality) of the characters.
I like to follow the processing relationship between John and SH during the show, but that's it. To me everything else is irrelevant and over-interpreted.
But I just want to point out my own opinion once. I don't mind - as long as you have fun discussing it. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 28, 2012 9:57 am)


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 28, 2012 10:47 am  #62


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

In the canon Scandal there is no romance at all with Miss Adler. He admires her intellect...end of story. The photograph is kept as a memento of a worthy adversary as she manages to out-manoeuvre him.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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July 28, 2012 5:14 pm  #63


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Wether or not there's romance in Scandal in Bohemia is arguable. Both Irene's letter to him and him taking the photograph could be seen as romantic, but they could also be seen as just admiration.

I'd like to think that Sherlock's gay because I'm a bit of a Johnlock shipper myself  ; I also think that's the most probable, based on the show. However, it's always just going to be speculation, because they're never going to have Sherlock romantically involved with anyone on the show. 

 

July 28, 2012 5:40 pm  #64


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Arya wrote:

Wether or not there's romance in Scandal in Bohemia is arguable. Both Irene's letter to him and him taking the photograph could be seen as romantic, but they could also be seen as just admiration.

I'd like to think that Sherlock's gay because I'm a bit of a Johnlock shipper myself  ; I also think that's the most probable, based on the show. However, it's always just going to be speculation, because they're never going to have Sherlock romantically involved with anyone on the show. 

That's fine for me - I don't need romantic everywhere. 
Sometimes it can even spoil a show. Nice idea, starts interesting and later on.... ends up in.... this "sticky sweet honey thing"...
Disappointing sometimes.

There are movies where it's fine and expected - and there are others where it's just unsuitable.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 28, 2012 6:00 pm  #65


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Unsuitable and sometimes it destroys the dynamic and then the programme stops working.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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July 28, 2012 6:07 pm  #66


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

Unsuitable and sometimes it destroys the dynamic and then the programme stops working.

"Lawrence of Arabia" is one of my favourite films and it has no love story whatsoever - at least not where women are concerned  . I never missed it.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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July 28, 2012 6:14 pm  #67


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Peter O'Toole's eyes! Have you ever read The Seven Pillars of Wisdom?


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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July 28, 2012 6:32 pm  #68


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Yes, a long time ago. It was interesting, what a fascinating and haunted and controversial man. I was astonished how openly he mentioned his masochistic tendencies. And the eyes are unbelievable. When the director's cut was shown in cinemas I was in London and went there three times.

Last edited by SusiGo (July 28, 2012 6:33 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

July 28, 2012 7:13 pm  #69


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Arya wrote:

Whether or not there's romance in Scandal in Bohemia is arguable. Both Irene's letter to him and him taking the photograph could be seen as romantic, but they could also be seen as just admiration.

Interesting. And this befits Doyle's style, his Sherlock, and the times in which it was written. Even heterosexual sex in fiction was often written as though one were observing through a filmy gauze sheer curtain-- in the Victorian era, that was "romantic"-- women were pure, and they were put on pedestals, to be protected from and admired by the cavemen around them, and the readers were expected to fill in the (huge) sexual-activity blanks in the fiction they read themselves.

I'd like to think that Sherlock's gay because I'm a bit of a Johnlock shipper myself  ; I also think that's the most probable, based on the show. However, it's always just going to be speculation, because they're never going to have Sherlock romantically involved with anyone on the show. 

My Sherlock is in love with John, with that love either requited or unrequited, it doesn't matter. There is only John. And actually, BBC canon supports the notion of that love, loud and clear, IMO, even though they portray John as a serial dater of women and a loud "I'm not gay" protester. Sherlock is still in love with him. You'd have to be blind not to see it. John, at the moment in the show, is pretty blind to it-- after all, especially for a straight man, you wouldn't necessarily think that way about your "best friend" and colleague-- wouldn't see the subtle signs. Unless Sherlock grabs him and lays one on him one day, John would probably go "duh" through his life about it. So until Sherlock decides to come out from behind the snark about John's GFs and his internet porn habits, until he decides to get real and face his desire for John like a fully-functioning adult and take the risk, the status quo will remain.

The BBC knows how to do gay romance. They did it in Torchwood. 'Course I realize the star in that case, John Barrowman, is gay in RL, and so presumably had no qualms about getting into a clinch with a good-lookin' guy or two or three, whereas it appears as though BC and MF are both straight. So I imagine, in the end, it will be up to not just the writers and the direction they want to take their characters, but also up to the actors themselves-- not all male actors would be willing to get up close and personal with another male, or risk being stereotyped.

 

July 28, 2012 7:34 pm  #70


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

Unsuitable and sometimes it destroys the dynamic and then the programme stops working.

In the US, we have a dearth of good TV writers. Not sure where the good writers have been scared off to, possibly to the cable networks, like HBO and Showtime. The mainline networks are now obviously paying low bucks for low-quality writers who are (by the looks of it) all male and of college age. It's scary-bad, the quality of writing. Man on woman sex (which passes for romance) and man on man violence is about all they seem to be able to cough up. The rest of the show, if there is any "rest of the show", is the stuff of daytime soap operas. Terrible, terrible, terrible writing, and about as original as an ugly wart on the end of a nose.  And yes, I know there are exceptions to all of that. But IMO few and far between.

So I don't know that it's only because there's romance (M/F or otherwise) that a program stops working. If the writers can't write and the actors can't act, well.... there's not much hope of anything long-term interesting coming out of that.

With our show (how do you like that, OUR show, lololol), we know we have good writers and we know we have good actors. IMO they could make it work-- whether it's Sherlock/John, or if Sherlock stays dedicated to his hiding-in-a-sexual-cave thing, while John goes on to find some decent woman, someone sweet-natured and mature enough to tolerate his relationship with Sherlock, to whom he actually gets married and has 5 kids-- handled right, by writers with talent, it could work.

The idea of Uncle Sherlock actually makes me sit here and grin. But I would *have to* have a John who told him to shut the f*** up about his wife and kids-- no snark, no being rude to his family, etc. The John we saw at the Xmas party thing in Belgravia, lowered eyes, hard mouth, who acted embarrassed and angry with Sherlock, but who said nothing? No wife would ever, ever, ever put up with that nonsense--- he would have to stand up to Sherlock about her, or she'd be outta there, just as Nobody was on that Xmas eve.  But if they could write it right and act it right, I would not be averse to the idea of a family for John. And then the Watson rug rats can sit on Uncle Sherlock's knee and spit up on him. *laughing*  OK, I'll shut up now.  heh

 

July 28, 2012 7:45 pm  #71


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Long text, ancientsgate - and my English gives up.
I think (hope!) I got the main thing about romance in movies - good actors, good script, good romance.
Else: sticky sweet. (Sorry if I shorten it right now, I think I also understand some of the backgrounds in your post. )
I agree.

But maybe you can explain this:
"And actually, BBC canon supports the notion of that love, loud and clear, IMO, even though they portray John as a serial dater of women and a loud "I'm not gay" protester. Sherlock is still in love with him. You'd have to be blind not to see it."
What did I not see?


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 28, 2012 8:02 pm  #72


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Mattlocked wrote:

Long text, ancientsgate - and my English gives up.{quote}

I'm sorry! I wish I could help, but as with most Americans, English is my one and only language.

[quote}I think (hope!) I got the main thing about romance in movies - good actors, good script, good romance.
Else: sticky sweet. (Sorry if I shorten it right now, I think I also understand some of the backgrounds in your post. )  I agree.

I think you got most of it!

but maybe you can explain this: "And actually, BBC canon supports the notion of that love, loud and clear, IMO, even though they portray John as a serial dater of women and a loud "I'm not gay" protester. Sherlock is still in love with him. You'd have to be blind not to see it."
What did I not see?

Sherlock loves John. At this point, it's brotherly love, I suppose--  Sherlock doesn't "do" romantic love-- he is, as he said, married to his work. "Girls don't work for me" (or whatever he said in A Study in Pink), and he denies having a boyfriend either, so for now, he's decided it's easier and more efficient for him to just not go there. But I believe he loves John, as a friend and colleague, and as someone who's probably become closer to him than anyone else in his life ever has. For now, this is as close as we're going to see Sherlock loving someone.  It could at some point flip over to romantic love, so that Sherlock might develop sexual and relationship feelings for John-- that will be up to the writers and to the actors themselves. For now, we all have fan fiction to write and read!

 

July 28, 2012 8:09 pm  #73


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Ah, thanks, got it.
In that case I did not miss anything. 


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 29, 2012 2:27 am  #74


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Ancientsgate- I wasn't saying BBC couldn't do gay romance. All I was saying is that I don't think it's going to happen in Sherlock, because 1) there's so much speculation about Sherlock's sexuality that they're bound to get a lot of people mad if they do, and 2) it deviates too much from the original canon.

That said, I still wish it would happen 

 

July 29, 2012 8:09 am  #75


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

It's acting at he end of the day so if it was necessary most actors can and will do it. However, I don't think that is where the writers are going to be taking the series as it is not an essential part to the character development into the older Sherlock Holmes. IMO


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

July 29, 2012 11:19 am  #76


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

It's acting at he end of the day so if it was necessary most actors can and will do it. However, I don't think that is where the writers are going to be taking the series as it is not an essential part to the character development into the older Sherlock Holmes. IMO

Well said. Frankly it is becoming boring reading about this.
For heaven's sakes people, go read the canon.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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July 29, 2012 11:22 am  #77


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

kazza474 wrote:

Davina wrote:

It's acting at he end of the day so if it was necessary most actors can and will do it. However, I don't think that is where the writers are going to be taking the series as it is not an essential part to the character development into the older Sherlock Holmes. IMO

Well said. Frankly it is becoming boring reading about this.
For heaven's sakes people, go read the canon.

I didn't read the canon, yet, but anyway I agree to Davina's last post.
Because the title of the show is "Sherlock Holmes", not "Love actually". 

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 29, 2012 11:22 am)


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 29, 2012 11:57 am  #78


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

kazza474 wrote:

Well said. Frankly it is becoming boring reading about this.
For heaven's sakes people, go read the canon.

Come on Kazza - let us enjoy our hypothetical fun.  It's what the Forum is for, isn't it? I'm not bored with this topic.  I like seeing everyone's viewpoint.  I don't need theirs to match mine and I don't always need everything to be canon since the show is 'based' on it but is not the actual canon.

Keep posting your thoughts everyone.  we're having fun here - at least I am.


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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July 29, 2012 12:17 pm  #79


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Hi guys, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, (don't kill me, I'm new haha) but in terms of BBC's Sherlock, I reckon something slightly fishy had been going on in the past between Sherlock and...Sally Donovan. I know, I know, hold your laughter till the end, but think about it. Particularly when she's talking to John about him when they first meet: "Don't trust him. He'll always let you down." Also, it explains how she treats him so horribly all the time, y'know, calling him 'freak' and all that. I know it's a very long shot, but you know what they say; Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.


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July 29, 2012 4:25 pm  #80


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Like KeepersPrice, I'm enjoying reading everyone's viewpoints and I'm not bored at all.

As for Sherlock and Sally...  What a novel idea!  Personally, I think it unlikely but I can see how one could make that assumption and it sure is fun to speculate on what such a relationship would've been like.  Thanks for yet another wrinkle, AreYouTryingToDeduceMe.


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