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July 25, 2012 7:06 am  #41


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Somehow I cannot imagine him having a girlfriend. To me he doesn't seem like a man who's experienced negative or hurtful things with a girl or a woman but really like someone who's shut off himself from his feelings in order to concentrate on his work. On the other hand it may be that he's been hurt in other ways, by people telling him to piss off or making fun of him. Kids can be cruel towards outsiders and you can imagine what it must have been like at school for him.
But that's of course pure speculation - like almost everything in connection with his youth. We only have the few hints like Seb's "We hated him" and the famous "piss off" and Mycroft's constant worrying him to go on.


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July 25, 2012 7:52 am  #42


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Sherlock was very much a man of his time (Victorian England, well, and now contemporary London).

I have read fantastic fanfiction on this subject but statistically it is still more likely that he is not queer.

Mind you, part of the immense fascination with this BBC version is obviously the fact that he kinda plays Sherlock queer 

 

July 25, 2012 8:19 am  #43


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

I personally don't think that he has ever had a relationship of that kind with anyone.
I do think that there must have been some traumatic experience that made him shut off his feelings the way he does, but I think he gained all his knowledge about people's relationships around him (referring especially to Sebastian here) from intense observations he was able to make due to his exclusion from society because of his unique character.

I think he has therefore always known people without really interacting with them.


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July 25, 2012 10:09 am  #44


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

SusiGo wrote:

...but really like someone who's shut off himself from his feelings in order to concentrate on his work. On the other hand it may be that he's been hurt in other ways, by people telling him to piss off or making fun of him.

Picking up on this perhaps this is some of the attraction of Irene Adler. The first part of your statement could equally apply to her couldn't it. She has shut off her feelings in order to concentrate on her work. The second part is relevant because she does not tell him to piss off or make fun of him. In fact when they first meet she wants to know how the hiker died. She is interested in how Sherlock's mind works and he is interested in how her mind works too.

Another similarity is that she looks after herself. She makes her own way in the world. Sherlock is much the same.

Ever had a relationship...really...is that very likely? What evidence do we have for it?


Last edited by Davina (July 25, 2012 10:10 am)


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July 25, 2012 10:57 am  #45


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

"Ever had a relationship...really...is that very likely? What evidence do we have for it? "

1. The fact that Sherlock is a human being (though probably with A.).

2. He is too bloody darn curious!

 

July 25, 2012 11:07 am  #46


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

But would that be a proper relationship or would it be more of a scientific experiment or investigation on his part?


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July 25, 2012 11:12 am  #47


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Davina wrote:

Beauty is an artificial, societal construct any way

I cheer myself up with that thought occasionally 

Steven Moffat did remark somewhere that at a particularly intimate moment in SiB Sherlock probably wondered where all the blood had gone that usually reached his brain (sorry, my clumsy paraphrasing but I'm sure you get my drift  ). So my guess would be that he's a 'normally-functioning-high-functioning-sociopath'

Last edited by JaneCo (July 25, 2012 11:24 am)


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July 25, 2012 1:42 pm  #48


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

The Doctor wrote:

Mind you, part of the immense fascination with this BBC version is obviously the fact that he kinda plays Sherlock queer 

Whatever do you mean by that? I am a dedicated Sherlock-John slasher, so it's okay by me if the two of them are in a relationship, but how do you think the current writers/actors have him "playing queer"? I don't see it. I see only friendship.

 

July 25, 2012 3:16 pm  #49


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Stop biting your tongue Kazza you'll hurt yourself. Try putting it firmly in your cheek

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July 25, 2012 8:00 pm  #50


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

"Queer" is a pretty pejorative term that I'm surprised is still in use.  I dislike it. I don't even like the word 'gay' as it sounds very flitty and feminine.  Homosexual, while accurate, sounds medically clinical.  I wish there was a better term.

I can't see Sherlock paying for sexual encounters of any type - he seems too fastidious in certain personal habits for this. Also, if Mycroft knew with one glance that John had spent the night on Sarah's couch in Great Game, something tells me he's quite certain that his little brother, whom he keeps a close eye on, has not had any sexual encounters.

I know we don't really have a 'back story' for our Sherlock, but I've always been of the opinion that his family is very wealthy.  His education is likely to have been public school all the way (here in America that would be a private school). If it was very strict upper class, it could have been exclusively a boy's school.  Young boys have been known to experiment but can also be very brutal about any hints of homosexuality in the ranks.  My guess is that Sherlock (no matter his orientation) would have learned quickly to stay above it and out of it.

I think the show is completely ambigious about his sexuality which is a deliberate choice (and a slight nod to the theory long-lived in Sherlockian circles).  John lives with him and is not sure of Sherlock's orientation - as stated in aSiB; however, I find the restaurant scene in aSiP, while also very much ambiguious, seems to slant ever so slightly toward 'gay' since he states outright that 'girls aren't really my area' but is not quite so emphatic about boys - maybe because John asks about boyfriends but then continues saying something like 'which is fine by the way' and Sherlock responds 'I know it is'.  So, not quite as strong on the idea of boys as opposed to girls but still highly ambiguous.

IMO, he has not had a relationship or experienced a sexual encounter and this is by choice.  Any 'experiments' would be in the area of using his mind power and will power to squelch any physical needs that may arise (oops, sorry for the pun) 


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July 25, 2012 8:22 pm  #51


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

KeepersPrice wrote:

"Queer" is a pretty pejorative term that I'm surprised is still in use.  I dislike it. I don't even like the word 'gay' as it sounds very flitty and feminine.  Homosexual, while accurate, sounds medically clinical.  I wish there was a better term.

Queers call themselves queer. I'm not sure how well-tolerated it is, coming from the straight crowd. Sort of like the N word-- African Americans call each other Ns all the time, but we white folks are not supposed to go there.

The meaning of the word gay has certainly changed over the last few decades!  And its origins have to be rather stereotypical as well-- certainly all gay men are not (as my computer dictionary says) bright and cheery and brightly colored and light-hearted.

I dunno, we have to call the lifestyle something. And as you say, homosexual sounds like something out of a medical text or a Biblical treatise.

 

July 25, 2012 10:04 pm  #52


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Queer is indeed a term of pride in the LBGT community nowadays.

Anyway, "how do you think the current writers/actors have him "playing queer"?

Here are my answers:

Ben's story.. "At the press launch of Sherlock he was asked if he minded being typecast as intense, clever, sexually ambiguous characters and, feeling relaxed"

Martin's spin: "It is an issue that Sherlock Holmes's fans are as wary of plunging into as their hero was the Reichenbach Falls. Martin Freeman has, however, described the BBC series Sherlock as having "the gayest story in the history of television".

At the Baftas, where he picked up the best supporting actor award for playing Dr Watson to Benedict Cumberbatch's Holmes, Freeman said that he saw Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's characters as being profoundly in love. "

"The writer of the series, Doctor Who scribe Stephen Moffat, agreed that he always wanted to play on the confusion of Holmes and Watson's relationship and never intended to confirm either character's sexuality."

Steven Moffat also indicated in an interview that Sherlock wasn't asexual, which upset some asexual fans, particularly Moffat claiming that an asexual Sherlock would have "no tension" and thus wouldn't be as interesting.

So, while there are no definitive answers there is a clear history of playing with sexuality!

 

July 25, 2012 11:26 pm  #53


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

The Doctor wrote:

Ben's story.. "At the press launch of Sherlock he was asked if he minded being typecast as intense, clever, sexually ambiguous characters and, feeling relaxed"

Martin's spin: "It is an issue that Sherlock Holmes's fans are as wary of plunging into as their hero was the Reichenbach Falls. Martin Freeman has, however, described the BBC series Sherlock as having "the gayest story in the history of television".

At the Baftas, where he picked up the best supporting actor award for playing Dr Watson to Benedict Cumberbatch's Holmes, Freeman said that he saw Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's characters as being profoundly in love. "

"The writer of the series, Doctor Who scribe Stephen Moffat, agreed that he always wanted to play on the confusion of Holmes and Watson's relationship and never intended to confirm either character's sexuality."

Steven Moffat also indicated in an interview that Sherlock wasn't asexual, which upset some asexual fans, particularly Moffat claiming that an asexual Sherlock would have "no tension" and thus wouldn't be as interesting.

So, while there are no definitive answers there is a clear history of playing with sexuality!

Thanks for this. I love Martin's "gayest story in the history of television" comment. It sure leaves some fertile fields for us fan fic slashers to write and read our beloved pairing.

 

July 26, 2012 12:40 am  #54


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Every time I read a post in this thread, I seem to come to a different conclusion regarding Sherlock's sexuality.

I doubt that he's had any kind of long-term, or even short-term relationship, but I'm not so sure that he's a virgin.  I think that he is far too curious about people and what makes them tick to be content with being completely ignorant of what sex involves.  Sex motivates so much of human behavior and people's emotions that I think Sherlock would want to experience it for himself to gain a greater understanding of what it's all about.  For him, it would be a scientific investigation. I think he would justify it as helping him become a better consulting detective.

The statement he made in ASIP about girls not being his area of interest could also be interpreted as him having had a sexual encounter with a woman at some point in his past but finding it not to his liking, after which he avoided any further intimate contact with them.

I like that the writers toy with the audience over this aspect of Sherlock's character.


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July 26, 2012 1:20 am  #55


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

Every time I read a post in this thread, I seem to come to a different conclusion regarding Sherlock's sexuality.

It's intriguing, is it not? *smile*

I doubt that he's had any kind of long-term, or even short-term relationship, but I'm not so sure that he's a virgin.  I think that he is far too curious about people and what makes them tick to be content with being completely ignorant of what sex involves. Sex motivates so much of human behavior and people's emotions that I think Sherlock would want to experience it for himself to gain a greater understanding of what it's all about. For him, it would be a scientific investigation. I think he would justify it as helping him become a better consulting detective.

He's not blind, either. He sees himself in the mirror, would have to know that he's attractive. Even as snarky as he is, I think if SH were a RL character, he'd have to carry a big stick with him everywhere he went, just to beat off the admirers. Even in the show, he uses his biting commentary to beat them away, now that I think about it, which is his equivalent of a big stick-- he's certainly done that with Molly, and also with Jim the IT guy, back when everyone thought he was just Jim the IT guy.

What was it he told Mycroft in Buckingham Palace, that he wasn't afraid of sex? That implies some knowledge, I would imagine. And who the hell gets through college without some dating/sex interaction with someone somehow somewhere? Not many.

The statement he made in ASIP about girls not being his area of interest could also be interpreted as him having had a sexual encounter with a woman at some point in his past but finding it not to his liking, after which he avoided any further intimate contact with them.

Girls really are a lot of trouble. Hey, I are a girl, lol, and even I think so. Goodness, we can be a full time job for the guy or girl in our life. I cannot imagine a SH who would ever have the time or interest to put into any kind of relationship with anyone but John, as a matter of fact. *smiling again*  Anyone else would end up just flouncing out, like John's "Nobody" did on Xmas.

I like that the writers toy with the audience over this aspect of Sherlock's character.

They are playing with us.  heh

 

July 26, 2012 7:58 am  #56


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

The comment about girls not being his area could also be an indication that he has had a crush/crushes on a girl/s in the past but was a failure in that area. He must have come over as a strange, geeky, weird, awkward youth, I would imagine.

The comment by Martin and Moftiss et al is a deliberate play with the widespread discussions that have been going on for donkey's years about the 'relationship' between Holmes and Watson. This is deliberately played on in the series itself. Another observation is that two men or two women can be in love without it necessarily being sexual.


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July 26, 2012 4:29 pm  #57


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

I am not quite sure about this question.
For myself, I like to believe he hasn't ever had a girlfriend, simply because I am a strict Johnlock-Shipper and because in my opinion their relationship would be even more beautiful with Sherlock being, well, a virgin and stuff.
I don't really care whether Gatiss and Moffat included homoerotic subtext and I don't think the actors are playing 'queer', but I guess I do see those gay subtextes only because I want to believe in them, not because they actually exist :'D
So, in conclusion, I wouldn't really like it, if Sherlock ever had a girlfriend. A boyfriend, though, would be something completely different, of course :'D


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July 26, 2012 4:42 pm  #58


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Oh the subtexts are definitely there, that's why everyone's latched onto it.

I have quite a few different theories about Sherlock's past and because I do a lot of roleplaying online we quite often play around with various ideas about whether he is a virgin, why he chooses to be asexual etc. It's rather a long list which I may type up and share with you at some point!


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July 26, 2012 7:34 pm  #59


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Plueschkissen wrote:

I am not quite sure about this question.
For myself, I like to believe he hasn't ever had a girlfriend, simply because I am a strict Johnlock-Shipper and because in my opinion their relationship would be even more beautiful with Sherlock being, well, a virgin and stuff.
I don't really care whether Gatiss and Moffat included homoerotic subtext and I don't think the actors are playing 'queer', but I guess I do see those gay subtextes only because I want to believe in them, not because they actually exist :'D
So, in conclusion, I wouldn't really like it, if Sherlock ever had a girlfriend. A boyfriend, though, would be something completely different, of course :'D

I do like the way you think! *smile*  Beautiful pic of John in your post.

 

July 28, 2012 8:58 am  #60


Re: D'you think Sherlock has ever had a girlfriend?

Holmes comes across as a misogynist in the canon. He has a strong distrust of women and believes they can be far more cunning and devious than men. There's nothing sexual about any story he is in where a woman has a prominent role, as far as I can remember, even in the romanticized encounter with Irene Adler in A Scandal in Bohemia.


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