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August 22, 2013 3:21 pm  #21


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I don't like the part "Molly killed..." very much.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

August 22, 2013 3:36 pm  #22


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Series 3 spoiler alert, disregard this post if you don't want to see any.  Here comes some protective space.







Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?


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August 22, 2013 8:11 pm  #23


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I know Molly told Sherlock he could ask her to do anything but I think she would stop at committing an act of murder.


.........................................................................
He does love to be dramatic.
Well, thank god you're above all that!
 

August 22, 2013 8:16 pm  #24


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

MNRebecca wrote:

Series 3 spoiler alert, disregard this post if you don't want to see any.  Here comes some protective space.







Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?

Yes.  And the pigeons fly away from the window, which makes me suspect that she's watching the entire thing.
 


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

August 22, 2013 8:30 pm  #25


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Mattlocked wrote:

I don't like the part "Molly killed..." very much.

Maybe Molly asked someone to kill Sherlock's double. Anyway, she helped Sherlock.
I must say that I can speak German http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 

 

August 22, 2013 8:47 pm  #26


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Sergey1 wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

I don't like the part "Molly killed..." very much.

Maybe Molly asked someone to kill Sherlock's double. Anyway, she helped Sherlock.
I must say that I can speak German http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 

Molly wouldn't kill anyone.  Not even for Sherlock.  Not even be associated with one.  And Sherlock wouldn't ask her to.  All they would have to do is find someone in a morgue somewhere in the city and have it sent over, it's not that big of a deal.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

August 22, 2013 8:52 pm  #27


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

sj4iy wrote:

Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?
Yes.  And the pigeons fly away from the window, which makes me suspect that she's watching the entire thing.
 

Sorry, I just can't see any connection between Molly and the pigeons. After all, she isn't Cinderella or something.

Last edited by tobeornot221b (August 22, 2013 8:52 pm)


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

August 22, 2013 9:15 pm  #28


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

tobeornot221b wrote:

sj4iy wrote:

Haven't we seen a photograph suggesting that Molly was inside St. Bart's at the time, standing by a window?
Yes.  And the pigeons fly away from the window, which makes me suspect that she's watching the entire thing.
 

Sorry, I just can't see any connection between Molly and the pigeons. After all, she isn't Cinderella or something.

No, I meant that the pigeons are roosting on the windowsill as we see Sherlock's body from above.  Suddenly, the pigeons are startled and fly away.  City pigeons don't move for anything other than you getting right on top of them.  Someone is looking down at what's happening from the window above. IE: Molly.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

August 22, 2013 9:20 pm  #29


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Molly, or the helicopter...http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

August 22, 2013 9:26 pm  #30


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

tobeornot221b wrote:

Molly, or the helicopter...http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

;)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

August 22, 2013 11:58 pm  #31


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I still think he borrowed Mycroft's umbrella and flew down like Mary Poppins would. Before anyone tries to disregard my theory just remember that it is more plausible than a homicidal Molly Hooper :O


.........................................................................
He does love to be dramatic.
Well, thank god you're above all that!
 

September 5, 2013 12:49 am  #32


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

MNRebecca wrote:

Howdy, all.  I'm trying to find discussion of my favorite theory, that Sherlock did nothing to fake his death, that he went over that ledge fully believing he was giving his life for his friends.

Yes, I'd love some discussion on that too It was my first idea, and while I went through many other explanations and theories, I've always come back to it. Because it's unexpected and logical and just... I don't know. It has got some flaws, but other theories have got those, too.

Producers interest would be to surprise people... it’s nice if we can say: „oh, we got it all right, we’re such brilliant minds, just like Sherlock is“...
But i guess we would be even more thrilled if the explanation turned out to be something completely different, a real surprise... and I suppose that’s what the producers tried to achieve, so I’m sure it’s gonna be the Unexpected (like the mobile during the pool scene). Sherlock doing nothing to fake his death would be just that.

Also, in the original stories, in "The Empty House" Sherlock confesses to John that he honestly thought he was going to die when he met Moriarty. I know there are loads of changes in the series, but I'd like to see that this, and Mycrofts involvement, will somehow still be true. I do not doubt Mycrofts involvement, so why should I doubt the above? :D

I like to think that Mycroft is doing the thinking there, making the plans - and Sherlock is for once just a pawn in the game. Because Sherlock is a match for Moriarty, but in the end he is just good enough - he isn't ahead of the game, he isn't cleverer than Moriarty - he did believe in the computer key code, as he did believe that Moriarty really wanted the USB stick in "The Great Game". So maybe both dying, Moriarty and Sherlock, would have been a fair end for two equals. So maybe with choosing the rooftop Sherlock was just trying to show Moriarty that he understood the plan with the genius suicide - but maybe Sherlock, at that point, still thought he could bargain with the key code, or maybe he had some other plan up his sleeve... and then Moriarty surprises him, the key code means nothing, Sherlock has to think things over, and the shock when Moriarty shoots himself seems genuine to me.

Mycroft is clever enough, maybe he could see where Moriarty would take the game. His apology to John isn't just for selling out Sherlocks life story, I don't think so. And I do think Mycroft is the genius there, not Molly. I would really like to see Sherlock putting all his trust to Molly, but no, I don't think so. And the teaser trailer suggests otherwise anyway. But Mycroft telling Sherlock he plans to save him? Cannot see that - if he does, it's a secret thing, something Sherlock wouldn't know - because Sherlock wouldn't agree to any plan Mycroft suggests, would he.

I do think the confusion, the shock, the crying on the rooftop are all honest on Sherlocks part. I know it doesn't seem very likely, but in the pool scene, Sherlock is shocked that Moriarty got his hands on John. And in Hounds of Baskerville, he is actually afraid. So the possibility of real emotion is there


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

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September 5, 2013 2:25 am  #33


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

There's one BIG clue against this theory...Sherlock KNOWS what Moriarty is planning the moment they leave Kitty's flat- he even says "the only think left is for me to-" and stops before the words "kill myself".  Then he goes to Molly and says "I think I'm going to die".  Why would he then just wait around all night not thinking of some plan to NOT die and hope to blind luck?  He wouldn't, and he didn't.  I know that it sounds more romantic to think that he was completely honest up on that roof with his emotions...but he couldn't have been.  It's not in his character.  Even when Moriarty had a bomb strapped to John and guns trained on John and him, he didn't lose his cool (until he thought it was all over).


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

September 5, 2013 12:48 pm  #34


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I believe that Sherlock definitely had a plan to survive but there was always room for error.  He intended to survive if it all went to plan but there was always a possibility that he could fail and would have to kill himself for real.


.........................................................................
He does love to be dramatic.
Well, thank god you're above all that!
 

September 5, 2013 1:32 pm  #35


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

nicbooful wrote:

I believe that Sherlock definitely had a plan to survive but there was always room for error. He intended to survive if it all went to plan but there was always a possibility that he could fail and would have to kill himself for real.

Well, he was up against Moriarty, so there was always a risk...but it was one he had to take.  But we know that his plan went accordingly because he's still alive and unmaimed.  But he chose the place, we know he enlisted Molly's help, and he had all night to plan.  He knew what Moriarty's plan was, so he had a way to keep Moriarty's plan from coming to fruition.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

September 5, 2013 1:39 pm  #36


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Whisky wrote:

Producers interest would be to surprise people...

I cling to the hope that the creators focus solely on producing quality content.  J.K. Rowling's fixation on the fandom seems to have seriously degraded the final three books of the Harry Potter series. 


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September 5, 2013 2:05 pm  #37


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I don't think it is a bad thing if the writers adress or honor the fandom somehow (as long as they don't write a relationship between Molly and Sherlockhttp://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png
).
They certainly live in a public place and know how the mind of a fan works. That's what they do. They exist in the world of the www.
Already in victorian times when Doyle wrote his stories he was aware of his readers and had ( to his own commiseration) to do what the readers required. Luckily for us.

But I understand that you are probably worried about too much sentimental fanfiction?
We can't do anything about that anyway, I'm afraid. Worrying won't help. Let's wait and see.

 

October 12, 2013 8:41 pm  #38


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

MNRebecca wrote:

Whisky wrote:

Producers interest would be to surprise people...

I cling to the hope that the creators focus solely on producing quality content.  J.K. Rowling's fixation on the fandom seems to have seriously degraded the final three books of the Harry Potter series. 

Well I am late to get back to this, but real life gets in the way sometimes...
anyway, you do have a point there! I wouldn't be happy if they just tried to please fans and the quality would suffer from it (and yes, the last books of Harry Potter were... not what they could have been. But I am not sure if that was only because of fan expectations).

Back to the theories... MNRebecca, I really support your points there.

I find it really hard to keep this theory up with spoiler/setlock stuff coming in... but it's not impossible, so I won't eliminate it ;) And my strongest hope is still the canon... if the producers really love the canon so much, would they go against it in this case? In minor cases, yes of course, but with the Fall? I cannot imagine... What about "my note to you was genuine"? I wouldn't like it one bit if they messed around with that one ;)

(But then again, I am not even sure that part is the equivalent to the goodbye phone call. It could also translate to the fact that Moriarty wants Sherlock destroyed, and John knows about this - Sherlock keeps him informed, is honest with him and only shuts him out in the very last moment when he realises Moriartys full intentions. While there is so much canon in the series, sometimes I am not quite sure which part translates to which.)
 


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

http://i58.tinypic.com/2j432ti.jpg
 

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