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August 5, 2013 7:58 pm  #1


Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Howdy, all.  I'm trying to find discussion of my favorite theory, that Sherlock did nothing to fake his death, that he went over that ledge fully believing he was giving his life for his friends.  Has anyone seen this theory before? Can you point me to a discussion?  Thanks.


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August 5, 2013 8:13 pm  #2


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Haven't heard about this theory before. Interesting, but I totally disagree.
To me, Sherlock did a lot to fake his death. Otherwise there won't be a third series.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


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August 5, 2013 8:34 pm  #3


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

In this theory, there will be a 3rd series because he survived, not because he faked it.  The only trickery would be having Molly cover it up should he happen to survive.


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August 5, 2013 8:45 pm  #4


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Theoretically, someone else could have faked it (perhaps Mycroft) while Sherlock didn't know about it. But I don't believe in that so far.


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August 5, 2013 8:59 pm  #5


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Yeah, the Molly-plot is problematic. But I have thought about that before.


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August 5, 2013 9:00 pm  #6


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I don't believe it, either.
Just think of the "moment of privacy" he was asking Moriarty for. To me it belongs to some kind of preparation.
But still an interesting idea. Hm.... I think I should keep that in mind and watch TRF again. Just for scientific reasons. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (August 5, 2013 9:01 pm)


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August 6, 2013 6:29 am  #7


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Nope, just no as far as this theory is concerned. He definitely intended to survive that fall. The moment of privacy mentioned above was part of the plot for Sherlock to see how preparations down on the ground were going, and he also forced John to keep his eyes fixed on him to make certain he wouldn't see whatever was happening in front of the building. To me, that means, had he looked, he would have seen that Sherlock wasn't really planning on killing himself.


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"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

August 6, 2013 7:05 am  #8


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

the_dancing_woman wrote:

Nope, just no as far as this theory is concerned. He definitely intended to survive that fall. The moment of privacy mentioned above was part of the plot for Sherlock to see how preparations down on the ground were going, and he also forced John to keep his eyes fixed on him to make certain he wouldn't see whatever was happening in front of the building. To me, that means, had he looked, he would have seen that Sherlock wasn't really planning on killing himself.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.
Furthermore, it wouldn't really be like Sherlock, would it, if he had not planned on surviving the fall but someone else (Mycroft or whoever) had seen to it.

Last edited by SolarSystem (August 6, 2013 7:08 am)


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August 6, 2013 8:09 am  #9


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I guess I kind wish he did jumped genuinely from that rooftop in order to save his friends... because for all my trust in Moftiss smart thinking I am still afraid I will be disappointed by the explanation given as to how he survived. But no, I he was obviously aware that Moriarty wanted to force him to comit suicide (at the very last from the moment they left Kitty's house) and he asked Molly for help, so obviously he was planning to do some trick, even if may be not exactly the way it had gone at the end.

 

August 6, 2013 8:38 am  #10


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

miriel68 wrote:

I guess I kind wish he did jumped genuinely from that rooftop in order to save his friends... because for all my trust in Moftiss smart thinking I am still afraid I will be disappointed by the explanation given as to how he survived.

edit: a bit spoilerish...

I really could imagine that the explanation will be simple and ingenious at the same time. And if I understood correctly what they said at Comic Con about it, then it seems to me that their focus really lies on the impact Sherlock's return will have on his friends and not so much on answering the "How did he survive"-question. They will answer it, but it's possible that they'll get it over with really quickly and make not a big fuss about it.

Last edited by SolarSystem (August 6, 2013 8:40 am)


___________________________________________________
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"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 6, 2013 12:08 pm  #11


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

He couldn't survive without intervention...it's practically impossible; and if he did, he would be very messed up indeed.  We wouldn't have seen him standing at his own grave so soon afterwards, because he would have had multiple broken bones and internal injuries, probably head trauma, as well.

There are enough clues to show that he did, in fact, fake his death.  The blood, angle he's lying on the sidewalk, John's inability to feel his pulse.


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August 6, 2013 2:01 pm  #12


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I'll try to address all the points raised in one post. 

-What Sherlock realizes upon leaving Kitty's flat ("He’s been sowing doubt into people’s minds for the last twenty-four hours. There’s only one thing he needs to do to complete his game, and that’s to ...") is that Moriarity needs to eliminate any remaining believers (i.e. Sherlock's friends) before he can take out Sherlock himself or he'll be stuck with troublesome loose ends that might investigate and reveal the truth.

-Sherlock's words to Molly were, "Molly, I think I’m going to die," not "Molly, I think someone's going to try to kill me" or "Molly, I think someone's going to try to force me to kill myself."

-The moment of privacy was to see if he could think of any other way out.  Sherlock often requests privacy to think, in the form of being alone or demanding silence.  And sure enough, he DOES figure a way out and start to smile.  He realizes Moriarty accidentally revealed that there's an off switch.

-People do survive falls with minimal injury, even from parachute heights.  His request to Molly was, "If it looks like I committed suicide but I live, make people think I died or innocent people will die."

-Similarly, he encouraged John to spread the myth ("I created Moriarty") to protect the innocent, so they'd refrain from prying after the fact and get themselves killed.

-Sherlock told John to stay where he was to keep him from getting shot.  If he'd approached the door to St. Bart's, the assassin would have fired.  It would have been his last chance to do so.

-Moffat loves writing emotion (think of all the emotion-rich scenes in SiB...humor, sorrow, tenderness, embarrassment, lust, etc.).  Revealing that Sherlock jumped purely to save his friends would totally be his style and fit Sherlock's growth pattern throughout the series and episode. 


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August 6, 2013 2:47 pm  #13


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

I have to admit, your theory is kind of intriguing and I hadn't thought of it before http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png
but still I can't quite see how it could possibly be true.

First, I remember Steven Moffot saying in an interview something along the lines of "If Sherlock Holmes is going to fake his own death, it better be the best faked death of all time, and I think it’s pretty good". So that pretty much affirms for me that Sherlock DID plan to fake his death...

Also, of course there have been cases where people survived falls with minimal injuries. But if you consider what Sherlock looked like on that pavement, there is no way this would classify as "minimal injuries". Just the amount of spilled blood in itself would indicate the severity of the injuries.

Which brings me to what sj4iy wrote: if Sherlock had been injured like that, there's now way he could have been standing at his grave soon after, looking totally unscathed http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
so he must have done something to fake the whole thing.

Last edited by SherlockianDE (August 6, 2013 2:48 pm)


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August 6, 2013 2:55 pm  #14


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

SherlockianDE wrote:

I remember Steven Moffot saying in an interview something along the lines of "If Sherlock Holmes is going to fake his own death, it better be the best faked death of all time, and I think it’s pretty good". So that pretty much affirms for me that Sherlock DID plan to fake his death...

f you consider what Sherlock looked like on that pavement, there is no way this would classify as "minimal injuries". Just the amount of spilled blood in itself would indicate the severity of the injuries.
Which brings me to what sj4iy wrote: if Sherlock had been injured like that, there's now way he could have been standing at his grave soon after, looking totally unscathed...

Rats. 


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August 6, 2013 2:58 pm  #15


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

MNRebecca wrote:

SherlockianDE wrote:

I remember Steven Moffot saying in an interview something along the lines of "If Sherlock Holmes is going to fake his own death, it better be the best faked death of all time, and I think it’s pretty good". So that pretty much affirms for me that Sherlock DID plan to fake his death...

f you consider what Sherlock looked like on that pavement, there is no way this would classify as "minimal injuries". Just the amount of spilled blood in itself would indicate the severity of the injuries.
Which brings me to what sj4iy wrote: if Sherlock had been injured like that, there's now way he could have been standing at his grave soon after, looking totally unscathed...

Rats. 

Well, we'll see http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
if your theory turns out to be right, then kudos to you.


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"I heard you."


(The Empty Hearse)
 

August 6, 2013 3:11 pm  #16


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

It's a cute theory. Sherlock's too clever though. He wouldn't want to let Moriarty win by actually doing it.


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August 6, 2013 3:38 pm  #17


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

It's a cute theory. Sherlock's too clever though. He wouldn't want to let Moriarty win by actually doing it.

Yes, it's just that simple.

As Steven Moffat once said, don't make the mistake of sentimentalising Sherlock Holmes too much (or something along those lines). For Sherlock Holmes in the end it is also always about proving that he is the smartest man in the room (or up on the roof in this case http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
).

Remember Sherlock saying "I may be on the side of the angels, but don't you think for a moment I am one of them". He didn't just say that to impress Moriarty, he meant it. It's not exactly what you would say before you commit an act of utter martyrdom.


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"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

August 7, 2013 7:00 am  #18


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Remember this is Sherlock we're talking about, he's not John. I can't imagine Sherlock knowingly killing himself, even if it was to save his friends. He's not exactly the sentimental type. In the words of Moffat: "sentimentalise him at your own risk"


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August 22, 2013 3:03 pm  #19


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Guys, I'm a big fan of the series and I know how Sherlock faked his Death. It's actually easy, you must think a bit! Every detail can be seen in the episode, you must onlu think. If you still don't know how Sherlock died, let me tell you!

First, you must look at the dialogue between Sherlock and John, Sherlock wanted John to stay near a little building which was a border between them. Here's the first detail! John couldn't see everything because of this little building. Then, when Sherlock "died", they didn't show us the full version of his fall, only a flight and then "his body". Here's the second detail! They didn't want us to know how everything happened. Then, when John came to the place where "Sherlock" lied, you could see a big truck with rubbish. here's the third detail! Sherlock had fallen to this truck, Molly was a driver... John couldn't see it becuase of the little building. Then the truck went away. Now we've come to the main detail... which body was lying? There are many answers, I want you to read my. Maybe you remember the scene where Sherlock and others found 2 children? Do you remember how the Girld cried after Sherlock came? Maybe there was his double, who worked for Moriarty, Molly killed him and threw his body on the road, everybody thought that it's Sherlock (even John). So this is my Theory. Maybe it isn't right, but everyone makes mistakes. We'll see the real Theory in late 2013 or in early 2014 http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 

August 22, 2013 3:06 pm  #20


Re: Sherlock did NOTHING to fake his death.

Ahem...yes.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

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