BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Which are the 'Johnlock' moments from Canon ?

SusiGo · September 26, 2013 4:21 pm

Why don't you start a thread on the subject so anybody who wishes to do so can join in. This is just not the place to discuss it.

As for the over-sexualisation as you put it - there are all sorts of interpretations, pastiches, adaptations and so on. There is an old, married Holmes in Laurie King's novels. There is Billy Wilder's wonderful film which heavily alludes to sexual matters of all sorts and has been a massive inspiration for Moftiss.

I would be very unhappy if people would stop posting in this thread because of this discussion. Please accept that here you spoil the fun for others and refrain from doing so.

Jacco111 · September 26, 2013 5:20 pm

People should post Johnlock things here if they want too. Just don't be too upset when I occasionally raise my voice on the matter too.

SusiGo · September 26, 2013 5:43 pm

Sp please let's get back to business.

holmes23 · September 26, 2013 7:14 pm

Jacco, if you don't mind, please post those moments which exemplify their friendship and I'm sure we Johnlockers will have our own share of giggles

Btw, when I was first introduced to canon, I didn't know there was such a thing as homosexuality, partly because of the society where I was brought up in, where it is still considered as a taboo. Hence, as an unspoiled reader back then, this Johnlock thing never occurred to me, but even then 'over sexualisation' was there as I shipped Holmes with Irene (not anymore, especially after seeing Irene in Sherlock). To me, he was created as such we never want him to be alone, aloof and virgin anymore. All this make him more irresistible

SusiGo · September 26, 2013 7:21 pm

Very interesting to hear about your experience from a different cultural point of view, holmes23.

I think it is a fact that many women are fascinated by male literary characters who seem somehow unattainable or distant. So our fancy takes flight and looks for hints, allusion or just creates relationships for said characters. And there is no tragedy in that.

Jacco111 · September 27, 2013 9:50 am

I think that holmes is quite right not to marry, he is not the kind of man to be held a prisoner. As was quite interestingly pointed out in the Guy Ritchie movies.

Last edited by Jacco111 (September 27, 2013 12:55 pm)

SusiGo · September 27, 2013 9:59 am

Interesting view of marriage.
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.

Last edited by SusiGo (September 27, 2013 10:01 am)

sj4iy · September 27, 2013 11:39 am

Holmes would never marry because he's not a man of compromise. He enjoys the company of Watson because Watson is clearly subordinate to him and allows him to do whatever he wants. He's a selfish creature, but Watson is so in awe of him that he can look past Holmes' flaws in a way that a woman couldn't.

Jacco111 · September 27, 2013 12:54 pm

True, I wish to add to that that Watson basically doesn't have a social life. When he arrives in London in A Study in Scarlet, he doesn't know anyone (except Stamford) and feels alone. It is only natural that he would see past the flaws in Holmes character, because he is basically his only friend and he can't afford to lose him. Later on this doesn't change, as Holmes points out in The Hound of the Baskervilles: 'He is not a man with intimate friends'.

Jacco111 · September 27, 2013 1:00 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Interesting view of marriage.
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.

I was talking about the scene from 'A Game of Shadows' where Holmes and Watson were riding in an automobile and discussing marriage.

SolarSystem · September 27, 2013 2:39 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.

That's exactly the impression I got, too.

SusiGo · September 27, 2013 3:03 pm

Jacco111 wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Interesting view of marriage.
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.
I was talking about the scene from 'A Game of Shadows' where Holmes and Watson were riding in an automobile and discussing marriage.

Regarding this scene I agree with you, Jacco. But there are grotesque moments (Holmes in drag rolling around on the floor with Watson) or moving scenes (Holmes looking at Watson and walking away alone after the marriage) or the one where they are dancing together that IMO clearly indicate there might be something some more between them. At least in this interpretation.

Harriet · September 27, 2013 3:06 pm

Jacco111, I find the way you act here more than insolent. This board flourishes because people are basically kind and generous with each other.
Go find yourself a Jeremy Brett board if you can't respect others.

Last edited by Harriet (September 27, 2013 3:10 pm)

SolarSystem · September 27, 2013 3:11 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Jacco111 wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Interesting view of marriage.
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.
I was talking about the scene from 'A Game of Shadows' where Holmes and Watson were riding in an automobile and discussing marriage.

Regarding this scene I agree with you, Jacco. But there are grotesque moments (Holmes in drag rolling around on the floor with Watson) or moving scenes (Holmes looking at Watson and walking away alone after the marriage) or the one where they are dancing together that IMO clearly indicate there might be something some more between them. At least in this interpretation.

Exactly. And doesn't he also talk to Mary about Watson, basically telling her not to marry him? Of course he does not have to have 'romantic' reasons for that, but he definitely wants to drive her away from Watson.

Jacco111 · September 27, 2013 3:21 pm

He does, in the first movie indeed. I agree on the 'he wants to keep Watson for himself' part. But I disagree with the fact that this is immediately regarded as a romantic or even sexual relationship. Holmes needs Watson to talk to, to be his companion and ocasionally as a 'punching ball'.

Jacco111 · September 27, 2013 3:25 pm

Harriet wrote:
Jacco111, I find the way you act here more than insolent. This board flourishes because people are basically kind and generous with each other.
Go find yourself a Jeremy Brett board if you can't respect others.

I dare you to find any signs of disrespect for others, I never scold people, I only state my own opinion. If you don't like that, that is your problem and not mine, but please note that I have the same right as you to use this board, and this tread.

And to be honest, I find the way that you 'Johnlock' lovers stumble over each other to lecture me somewhat amusing.

holmes23 · September 27, 2013 4:09 pm

Jacco111 wrote:
Harriet wrote:
Jacco111, I find the way you act here more than insolent. This board flourishes because people are basically kind and generous with each other.
Go find yourself a Jeremy Brett board if you can't respect others.
I dare you to find any signs of disrespect for others, I never scold people, I only state my own opinion. If you don't like that, that is your problem and not mine, but please note that I have the same right as you to use this board, and this tread.

And to be honest, I find the way that you 'Johnlock' lovers stumble over each other to lecture me somewhat amusing.

But you seem to be intolerent of other's opinion. Your way of expressing opinion is sometimes really disrespectful of others, like calling their ideas nonsense. I think, almost all of those who play the game of Johnlock will never have any objection to those who believe that Holmes and Watson's friendship is nothing but a platonic one

Imho, diversity of ideas should be entertained as this surely enriches our forum, but nothing should be impossed on.

http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Tolerant-to-People%27s-Opinions

Last edited by holmes23 (September 27, 2013 4:12 pm)

kittykat · September 27, 2013 4:11 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Jacco111 wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Interesting view of marriage.
Regarding the Ritchie movies: I got the impression that Holmes did not want Watson to marry because he wanted to keep him for himself.
I was talking about the scene from 'A Game of Shadows' where Holmes and Watson were riding in an automobile and discussing marriage.

Regarding this scene I agree with you, Jacco. But there are grotesque moments (Holmes in drag rolling around on the floor with Watson) or moving scenes (Holmes looking at Watson and walking away alone after the marriage) or the one where they are dancing together that IMO clearly indicate there might be something some more between them. At least in this interpretation.

Hmmm...I wasn't all that interested in watching those movies, but now I may need to rethink that

kittykat · September 27, 2013 4:13 pm

holmes23 wrote:
Jacco111 wrote:
Harriet wrote:
Jacco111, I find the way you act here more than insolent. This board flourishes because people are basically kind and generous with each other.
Go find yourself a Jeremy Brett board if you can't respect others.
I dare you to find any signs of disrespect for others, I never scold people, I only state my own opinion. If you don't like that, that is your problem and not mine, but please note that I have the same right as you to use this board, and this tread.

And to be honest, I find the way that you 'Johnlock' lovers stumble over each other to lecture me somewhat amusing.
But you seem to be intolerent of other's opinion. Your way of expressing opinion is sometimes really disrespectful of others, like calling their ideas nonsense. I think, almost all of those who play the game of Johnlock will never have any objection to those who believe that Holmes and Watson's friendship is nothing but a platonic one

Imho, diversity of ideas should be entertained as this surely enriches our forum, but nothing should be impossed on.

http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Tolerant-to-People%27s-Opinions

Quite right I know other members who aren't into Johnlock, but they never say a word against it because they respect others.

holmes23 · September 27, 2013 4:20 pm

Kitty, don't lose a minute to watch them . It is through these movies I was initiated into Johnlockism. Imo, the first one is a fine bromance, and I liked it best.

Last edited by holmes23 (September 27, 2013 4:23 pm)