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February 24, 2013 6:17 pm  #1


Sebastian/Seb

In the bathroom scene, after Sherlock and John interrupt Sebastian's lunch meeting, Sherlock is explaining his theory to Sebastian. Sebastian disagrees and Sherlock says, "Seb!"

"SEB!"? A nickname. Sherlock called Sebastian by his nickname. They wErE university friends and the use of a nickname seems to indicate intimacy at a friendship level.

I believe they were friends at one point, and close friends. It DID seem awkward between them so I guess they may have fallen out somehow, which also explains the seven/eight years of not seeing each other (even though they were in the same city).

I don't think we're finished seeing Sebastian "Seb". 

What do you think? Do you think a nickname is conclusive proof that they were friends at one point? 

Also, do we know his last name?


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If you're going to be boring, please do it over there.
 

February 24, 2013 6:32 pm  #2


Re: Sebastian/Seb

His last name is Wilkes.

Well, I don't know much about the use of nicknames in GB. Moriarty call himself Jim, so maybe Sebastian just went by Seb when he was younger?


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"Yes, of course I forgive you."
 

February 24, 2013 6:52 pm  #3


Re: Sebastian/Seb

The scene is indeed a bit strange. There's also the moment when Sherlock introduces John as his friend. Seb seems to be surprised and John corrects Sherlock by saying "colleague". I always had the feeling there's a certain subtext to this scene.


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

February 24, 2013 6:58 pm  #4


Re: Sebastian/Seb

I am not sure about how close they were but I found it so sad to see how Sherlock tried to make Sebastian believe that he was 'normal'. It seemed so out of character for him.


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"Yes, of course I forgive you."
 

February 24, 2013 7:08 pm  #5


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Mattlocked used to have his face in exactly that moment as signature. It always made me sad when I saw it. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

February 24, 2013 7:26 pm  #6


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Seb is definitely more informal. Sherlock may have used the more informal nickname as Sebastian is disagreeing with him in order to imply his own superiority in this matter/discussion.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

February 24, 2013 7:31 pm  #7


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Sebastian (I don't know how his surname is supposed to be "Wilkes") keeps calling Sherlock "buddy".

http://up.picr.de/13575213vv.jpg


http://up.picr.de/13575214px.jpg


which gives me the impression of Sherlock not taken seriously by him: "We were at uni together, and this guy here had a trick he used to do."


 


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
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February 24, 2013 7:37 pm  #8


Re: Sebastian/Seb

While I am not a great fan of "Blind Banker" as an episode, I do love scenes with Sebastian and the dynamics between Sherlock-Sebastian-John. They are really interesting, to begin with Sebastian calling Sherlock "old buddy" in his letter, then this very telling exchange about "friend" in the office and finally bathroom scene. 
  Sebastian calls Sherlock "buddy", but he doesn't treat him as one - in fact, he keeps humiliating him all the way, by treating him just as a private eye he wants to hire and pay for his services. Sherlock, on his side, is probably not interested in a lasting friendship with Sebastian, but he obviously  would like to be treated by S. as a "collegue", and is hurt by his arrogance - especially in front of Watson. I think "Seb" is his last, somewhow desperate attempt to put their relationship on personal level - that of old collegues from University - and he is quite brutally told off by a wonderfully bitchy Sebastian. Poor Sherlock! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png

 

February 24, 2013 7:47 pm  #9


Re: Sebastian/Seb

We see clearly here - John doesn't like Seb and Sherlock is hurt:

http://up.picr.de/13575574jc.jpg


http://up.picr.de/13575575rm.jpg


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

February 24, 2013 10:08 pm  #10


Re: Sebastian/Seb

well, I think Seb is a guy who likes pretending, being jovial and easy-going. kind of a City professional, cold-hearted, rich and without real friends (but pretending everyone is his friend). it seems to me that Seb is trying to show John that he and Sherlock were something like friends at the uni /maybe he´s surprised that Sherlock calls John his friend/, but I don´t think they actually were. they can have some breakfasts together, but Sherlock was too annoying and unfriendly to all. but it was maybe his intelect and oddity that made people around him want to be, or pretend to have been, his friends. just my uncomplete opinion.
btw - are there any ideas which university or department did Sherlock attend? I´d say chemistry or something like that


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..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

February 25, 2013 12:58 am  #11


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:

well, I think Seb is a guy who likes pretending, being jovial and easy-going. kind of a City professional, cold-hearted, rich and without real friends (but pretending everyone is his friend). it seems to me that Seb is trying to show John that he and Sherlock were something like friends at the uni /maybe he´s surprised that Sherlock calls John his friend/, but I don´t think they actually were. they can have some breakfasts together, but Sherlock was too annoying and unfriendly to all. but it was maybe his intelect and oddity that made people around him want to be, or pretend to have been, his friends. just my uncomplete opinion.
btw - are there any ideas which university or department did Sherlock attend? I´d say chemistry or something like that

I always like to think Sherlock went to Oxford or Cambridge, but I don't think he did in this series.

When Sebastian, in the bathroom, describes Van Coon as a "very bright guy" who went to Oxford, it seems as though he is saying Oxford in reverence, like some say "Harvard." If he had went also went to Oxford, he would have said so.Same if he had went to Cambridge.

I'm sure Sherlock went to a very pretigous university!


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If you're going to be boring, please do it over there.
     Thread Starter
 

February 25, 2013 1:26 am  #12


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Somehow I can't really imagine Sherlock being somewhere else than London.
And I really, really want to know what Sherlock did study (chemistry?), but that's getting a bit OT, I think. ;)


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"Yes, of course I forgive you."
 

February 25, 2013 8:35 am  #13


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Lily wrote:

Somehow I can't really imagine Sherlock being somewhere else than London.
And I really, really want to know what Sherlock did study (chemistry?), but that's getting a bit OT, I think. ;)

Definitely not psychology. Chemistry sounds fine to me. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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"Sherlock Holmes is a great man, and I think one day—if we’re very very lucky—he might even be a good one."

"Would you like to-"
"-have dinner?"
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February 25, 2013 11:31 am  #14


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Seb will refer to either Oxford or Cambridge with reverence, even if he had gone there himself. These Univesities have the same standing as the Ivy League.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

February 25, 2013 12:28 pm  #15


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Davina wrote:

Seb will refer to either Oxford or Cambridge with reverence, even if he had gone there himself. These Univesities have the same standing as the Ivy League.

Right - I think Sebastian would have said 'Oxford' or 'Cambridge' rather than 'uni' if that's where he'd been.  In the US, there is a personal interview required for the better-known schools.  If the same is true in the UK, then someone needs to write the fan fic of that interview.  It would not go well. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
 I would bet that Mycroft went to Oxford or Cambridge, however. 
 


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John: OK...That was ridiculous. That was the most ridiculous thing...I've ever done.
Sherlock: And you invaded Afghanistan.
John: That wasn't *just* me.
 

February 26, 2013 12:14 pm  #16


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Bizarre theory of the day - seeing the name 'Sebastian', my first thought is of Sebastian Moran, Moriarty's right hand in canon.  Does anyone think it's possible that Sebastian Wilkes is this universe's version of Moran?  In ASiP, the cabbie was meant to attact Sherlock's attention.  In TBB, Sebastian brings Sherlock into the case.

Moriarty tells Sherlock and John that he can't let them live because they're interfering with his business, and TBB would seem to be evidence of that - a random case in which they foil Moriarty even though they don't know he's pulling the strings in the background.  However, there were obviously cases prior to ASiP (and after Carl Powers) in which Sherlock had run up against Moriarty - cases he'd solved - that drew Moriarty's attention.  So TBB could be another test, another manipulation.


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John: OK...That was ridiculous. That was the most ridiculous thing...I've ever done.
Sherlock: And you invaded Afghanistan.
John: That wasn't *just* me.
 

February 26, 2013 12:54 pm  #17


Re: Sebastian/Seb

I don´t think so...if that was the intention of Mofftiss, they would name him fully after original, I suppose.


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..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

February 27, 2013 12:14 pm  #18


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:

I don´t think so...if that was the intention of Mofftiss, they would name him fully after original, I suppose.

I would tend to agree, but they've renamed at least one other character (Henry Knight).  Then again, there were reasons for that, since Baskerville Hall became a military facility in the BBC story and they dispensed with the family legend part of the story.
 


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John: OK...That was ridiculous. That was the most ridiculous thing...I've ever done.
Sherlock: And you invaded Afghanistan.
John: That wasn't *just* me.
 

February 27, 2013 12:18 pm  #19


Re: Sebastian/Seb

Wasn't there something about Moriarty's solicitor being Sebastian Moran?
I remember reading something like that but I don't know where it was. :/


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"Yes, of course I forgive you."
 

June 24, 2013 4:11 pm  #20


Re: Sebastian/Seb

I think Sebastian and Sherlock have never been friends. Sebastian comes across to me as a controlling jerk. At uni Sherlock was probably the butt of everyone's jokes and was disliked for being "cold" and not having friends or a social life. If you watch their meeting you can see the subtle emphasis Sherlock puts on the word "friend" and Sebastian's incredulous echo. John senses tension right off and settles the matter with "colleague". It's quite like Sherlock is trying to show Sebastian that yes, he is capable of having friends and that he should be taken seriously.

Sebastian treats him in an overly familiar way as if he is trying to smooth down an old disagreement so that he can use Sherlock's abilities to solve his problem. In his email he calls him "buddy" and when he shakes his hand at the bank he clasps Sherlock's wrist with his right hand, the type of handshake someone uses to show intimacy in a professional setting - though if there is no real intimacy in the relationship, it tends to put the recipient of the handshake off. He doesn't shake John's hand this way, keeping his right hand in his pocket. In Sebastian's mind, John is a "normal" stranger and doesn't need to be ingratiated.

Also, when Sebastian is visited by Sherlock at dinner, where he is dominating the conversation with a funny story, he quickly dismisses him to talk to his secretary - another dominant move, showing that he wants to be in control of the situation even though it is obviously an urgent matter. Sherlock insists on telling him about Van Coon's murder and needles him about the appointment. Sebastian briefly looks down and tugs at his collar - he's been made to look bad and doesn't like it.


...

I have taken to living by my wits.

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