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April 2, 2013 10:45 pm  #41


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

The night that Sherlock has everyone concerned translated to me differently than for most I suppose. I took that entire conversation to mean that Sherlock was on the edge emotionally. The fact that he took a ciggerette only proved how upset he really was. His comment to Mycroft about the cigerette being "low tar" and Mycroft's response "Well, you barely knew her." again translated to me to mean exactly what was being said. 

I may be wrong, but I didn't see that scene in SiB to be about drug (the illegal kind) use. Now the scene in SIP with the drugs bust read as just that - a drugs bust. I have no doubt that Sherlock has at some point used drugs. I didn't really see indication of it after SIP and the drugs bust scene.

I guess it's all up to interpretation. I am the kind of person who take most things at face value. That's one of the reasons I do not see subtext in the dialogue that leads people to think of Johnlock. John has clearly stated in every episode that he isn't actually gay. It has become a running gag, in my eyes, rather than some sort of subtext. 

The drug use or not drug use is the same, IMO. There was mention of prior drug use, but there is nothing in Sherlock's behavior that leads me to even suspect current drug use. Even John thinks the idea is daft and he is an army doctor and trained, I would assume, to spot such signs.
 


"I may be on the side of the angels,
but don't think for one second that I am one of them."
 

April 2, 2013 10:53 pm  #42


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

I too thought that 'the danger night' comment was also referring to him smoking a cigarette and not indulging in hard drug use. Interestingly Mycroft also smokes at times of stress e.g. When waiting outside Speedy's prior to discussing with John what 'story' he should feed Sherlock about Irene.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

April 3, 2013 1:32 am  #43


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

beekeeper wrote:

" In the Canon, Sherlock already has the flat, he's been living there for a while.  "

he hasn't, you know....

You are, of course, exactly correct.  Been a while since I read it, somehow I got it in my mind he was already there. Thanks for making it clear..

 

April 3, 2013 1:40 am  #44


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Harriet wrote:

They seem deeply worried about him that night. Only because of cigarettes?

Seems unlikely to me, also.  John asks Mycroft if he is sure this is a "danger night."  Mycroft says he is never sure but that John has to stay with Sherlock.  Taking the cigarette just proves he is upset.  He's already smoked, surely John didn't cancel Christmas Eve with his girlfriend, thereby causing her to break with him, over smoking. And surely "I never am," doesn't refer to Mycroft following Sherlock around since he's quit smoking.

Last edited by MysteriaSleuthbedder (April 3, 2013 1:41 am)

 

April 3, 2013 2:08 am  #45


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

I don't think anyone was implying that Sherlock is upset over smoking or that the concern for him is over smoking. Sherlock has just identified Irene Adler's corpse. He was facinated by the woman and he is upset that she has been murdered. 
The reason the smoking came into the conversation is because some folks thought that John and Mrs. Hudson were looking for drugs in the flat, while some others feel that they were looking for ciggerettes. The conversation all goes back to drug use and whether or not Sherlock actively uses drugs when under stress. The stress is Irene Adler's death not whether or not he has been smoking.


"I may be on the side of the angels,
but don't think for one second that I am one of them."
     Thread Starter
 

April 3, 2013 3:29 am  #46


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Yeah, but they wouldn't call it a danger night and get so worried about him searching the flat etc if it was just over cigarettes. They know that he keeps a secret stash of cigarettes anyway, in fact, John keeps it for him - hidden in the skull!


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

 

April 3, 2013 6:06 pm  #47


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

I think Sherlock is a show that is all about the subtext. Its that subtext that allows a lot of very different people to watch it without confronting ideas they find challenging.

The whole gay thing is a case in point. AFAIR only once does John say he's not gay-with Irene Adler, who is, logically, bisexual. The rest of the time I don't think he says he is not gay, he just denies he's in a relationship with Sherlock. Even taking things at fact value, the only things John has said is that a. he's not gay and b. he's not in a relationship with Sherlock. There is no reason why he cannot be bisexual, thus circumventing the whole argument. This is John, the master of the dishonest truth ("I'm a doctor-I saw it happen"-he says, all entirely truthfully, after punching Sherlock in the face.). I'm actually not sure he ever technically lies except once, very badly, over Irene Adler to Sherlock. But nowhere, nowhere does he deny or confirm that he has feelings for Sherlock. This is where the genius lies-in allowing either interpretation. I think, on critical considered balance-as someone who is really not a shipper and doesn't much care either way- the writers do lean towards one possibility (the thing that made up my mind here was the Sherlock scan directly before the scene when Sherlock believed John to be asking him out), but there's nothing in there to disturb anyone who'd prefer they were just good friends.

The same with the drugs. People who don't want to think of Sherlock as dependent on hard drugs can interpret that whole scene as him wanting a cigarette. But there is another interpretation there which does, I think, make much more sense. But people do not have to take it on board, they can see him as having a real nicotine problem. Hell maybe he's a real chain smoker! Personally I'd see heavy smoking as a lot more dangerous and addictive as cocaine anyway.

And the same with the "herbal soothers". That really sounds like a euphamism for some mixture containing medicinal cannabis to me and makes perfect sense in terms of our UK laws around medicinal use of cannabis (the police basically turn a blind eye). "herbal cigarettes", for example, can be a euphamism for a joint. But I guess to those who'd prefer not to think of Mrs Hudson that way there is the option that they are just something from the health food shop.

ETA have reaslied something pretty ironic. Sherlock's thing is "you see but you do not observe.". To work out what John is really saying, you often do have to observe, as in notice what he doesn't say

Last edited by beekeeper (April 3, 2013 6:31 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

April 3, 2013 6:25 pm  #48


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

well said, beekeeper. it´s all about everyone´s interpretation. and that´s one of the resons why it is so amusing.


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..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

June 16, 2013 4:45 pm  #49


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Slipper & seven percent
Sorry, if somebody has mentioned this before in another thread.
After reading your (interesting) discussion here certain *Hounds* scenes stand up in my mind:

Sherlock was frantically searching some cigarettes after begging John unsuccessfully. Kneeling in front of the fireplace he throwed among other things a slipper away.
In the canon Holmes used a Persian slipper to keep his pipe tobacco.

Mrs. Hudson offered him a cup of tea to calm down and Sherlock replied he needed something stronger. 7 % stronger.
In the canon Holmes used a seven percent cocaine solution for injection.

Tiny little snippets as a tribute to the original, I think - and maybe some hints. ;o)


In my life I have found two things of priceless worth - learning and loving. Nothing else - not fame, not power, not achievement for its own sake - can possible have the same lasting value. For when your life is over, if you can say 'I have learned' and 'I have loved', you will also be able to say 'I have been happy'.
~ Arthur C. Clarke ~
 

June 16, 2013 4:47 pm  #50


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Oh, thanks for pointing that out 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

June 16, 2013 5:48 pm  #51


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

You're welcome. :o)
I have looked it up by now, the seven percent was mentioned in *The Sign of Four*.

The scenes I mentioned before in Sherlock, were so well done - the fiddling with the harpoon. :o))


In my life I have found two things of priceless worth - learning and loving. Nothing else - not fame, not power, not achievement for its own sake - can possible have the same lasting value. For when your life is over, if you can say 'I have learned' and 'I have loved', you will also be able to say 'I have been happy'.
~ Arthur C. Clarke ~
 

June 16, 2013 6:13 pm  #52


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

reality check wrote:

You're welcome. :o)
I have looked it up by now, the seven percent was mentioned in *The Sign of Four*.

The scenes I mentioned before in Sherlock, were so well done - the fiddling with the harpoon. :o))

I loved that scene.  Especially the undisclosed tribute to "The Adventure of Black Peter".  Just great, lol.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

August 7, 2013 4:54 pm  #53


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Hello!

I think that Sherlock has used drugs before. The dialogue in SiP indicates so (IMHO):

LESTRADE: And you can’t withhold evidence. And I didn’t break into your flat.
SHERLOCK: Well, what do you call this then?
LESTRADE (looking round at his officers before looking back to Sherlock innocently): It’s a drugs bust.
JOHN: Seriously?! This guy, a junkie?! Have you met him?!
(Sherlock turns and walks closer to John, biting his lip nervously.)
SHERLOCK: John ...
JOHN (to Lestrade): I’m pretty sure you could search this flat all day, you wouldn’t find anything you could call recreational.
SHERLOCK: John, you probably want to shut up now.
JOHN: Yeah, but come on ...
(He looks into Sherlock’s eyes. Sherlock holds his gaze for a long moment and John realises how serious he’s looking.)
JOHN: No.
SHERLOCK: What?
JOHN: You?
SHERLOCK (angrily): Shut up!


=11px(Transcript taken from Ariane DeVere's blog)

I also believe that at some point of his life drugs were a problem from Sherlock, whether he was a real addict or not. Ergo Mycroft's and John's concern in SiB. Disgusting as it is, I don't think neither of them would be so worried about Sherlock smoking (cigarretes) again. Although, as beekeeper pointed out, it's all open to interpretation. 

 

 

August 7, 2013 5:05 pm  #54


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

In the pilot, when the cabbie injects Sherlock with something he asks, "Do a lot of drugs?"

And Sherlock says, "Not in a while."

I like how they handle the drug thing in the show. It's kind of there in the background but they don't make a big deal of it because that's not what the show is about. And it's not a huge issue in Sherlock's life except when he's really bored. 

But I would rather have him shoot the wall than inject something into himself


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Dean - "I'm not happy about it. But I got to move on. So I'm gonna keep doing what we do...while I still can. And I'd like you to be there with me."

Sam - "I'm your brother, Dean, if you ever need to talk about anything with anybody, you got someone right here next to you."


 

October 3, 2013 8:41 am  #55


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

AliceI wrote:

I know that in the canon of the books, Sherlock Holmes used drugs. I also know that in ASiP Sherlock had a suspicious reaction to the ‘fake’ drugs bust eluding to the fact that he has at some point used elicit drugs. In the pilot he even comes right out and says it. The cabbie asks if he likes drugs and Sherlock replies, “Not in awhile.”

All of this seems very contradictory to some of the other BBC Sherlock canon statements. Sherlock is all about his mind and using it to parse out the truth of a situation. In TGG he describes his mind as his “hard drive and that ordinary people fill their heads with all kinds of rubbish and that makes it hard to get at the stuff that’s really important.” He becomes extremely agitated with John insisting that he can’t believe Sherlock doesn’t know simple primary school knowledge and starts yelling that “All that matters to me is the work. Without that my brain rots.”  

In THoB he is quite literally freaked out by seeing the hound. It makes him doubt himself and that is a very uncomfortable situation for Sherlock not to mention something he has never experienced before. He knows that he saw the beast, but logically he couldn’t have. He says, “I’ve always been able to trust my senses, the evidence of my own eyes, until last night.” He came right out and said that he has never experienced doubt of his senses before. That tells me that he has never used drugs due to how they effect the function of those very same senses.

Given this about BBC Sherlock, it seems to me that taking drugs that alter one’s perception would be almost offensive to a man like him. He relies on his abilities to observe everything around him. His brain automatically takes it all in and begins to categorize all that input. Anyone could understand that the use of drugs would be a way to shut that off for a little while, but going by how BBC Sherlock describes himself and the workings of his mind, I don't really see him choosing to willingly hamper his ability to perceive the world around him.

The only reference we see of his possible drug use in the series is the ‘fake’ drugs bust. From that point forward the only substance he seems to have difficulty with is tobacco. Given these contradictions within the series I am unsure whether or not to think that the BBC Sherlock actually uses, or has in the past, used drugs. Opinions?

In the books, he actually used both morphine and cocaine. I can see Sherlock justify using cocaine to go faster and do more (just like some kids at Uni abuse Adderall) - but morphine would knock him out as it's a depressant on the nervous system. In the books, he had so many features of bipolar (they come up quite a few times) that I think his thoughts often race and his body has a difficult time keeping up. I think he uses drugs to self medicate to get the result he wants when needed. I imagine he'd use cocaine to push himself further and (in the books at least) morphine when his work was done and he needed to sleep but couldn't calm himself down enough to do so on his own.

For all his chatter about his 'mind rotting' - he certainly doesn't take good care of his body. Not in terms of eating, sleeping, the drug use, or much else. He certainly takes risks. I don't think he seems to care (at least until he becomes more attached to John) if he has an exceptionally long lifespan - just as long as he's distracted and engaged by the world and kept entertained/ busy (at least in his mind).
 

Last edited by Manticone (October 3, 2013 8:42 am)

 

October 9, 2013 10:02 am  #56


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

thanks ..

 

December 2, 2013 11:04 am  #57


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

I find the idea that Mycroft, John and Mrs. Hudson are upset about cigarettes entirely unlikely. Their three-person frenzy about it is entirely out of proportion, given that John's actually willing to give Sherlock his cigarettes in HoB, and Mycroft's just handed him a cigarette in the morgue in SiB. You do not hand an addict a sample of the drug you're seriously frightened he'll take. "Oh, let's test this guy and offer him a syringe of heroin to see if his defenses are down!"  No. Just... No.

Further, Sherlock's almost certainly both held and used since moving in to 221B. The conversation between John, Mycroft and Mrs. Hudson makes no sense otherwise. You do not know "the usual places" unless you've a) searched before and b) found the stash before. Frankly, given phrasing, more than once before...a position further strengthened by Sherlock's return to the flat and his comment that he hopes that John and Mrs. Hudson haven't messed up his sock index "this time." The habit of searching Sherlock's possessions is something familiar to all the parties involved--and tolerated with a weird combo of acceptance and resentment by Sherlock. Again, I simply can't imagine him having the same pained passive acceptance of a search for tobacco products. That's the humiliated response of a drug addict who knows that the search itself was justified...and hates it.

Basically the subtext of Sherlock just doesn't make sense if the drug use is not real and if it hasn't continued into at least SiB. Lestrade's threatened drug bust makes little or no sense if there's not real reason to consider it a powerful lever. Sherlock's reaction to the drug bust, from his rage at John for pushing the subject to his caving in to Lestrade almost frantically makes no sense unless he's actually holding at the time. His issues with Mycroft make too much more sense if Mycroft's been functioning in the position of trying to hold the line and bring Sherlock safely back to sobriety: the complexity of relationship of that sort just can't be understated. It's a b*tch to be the one who has to walk an addict through the intervention(s), create the financial boundaries, set standards and hold to them, try to maintain something between "normal" relations and "authority" relations. You can explain a huge amount of the dysfunction between the two brothers on the basis of Sherlock having an addiction and Mycroft being the one who's had to try to "fix" it.

And, yes, I've witnessed that pattern in the muddled middle between first and second hand. Helped put together interventions, seen the toll taken on family relationships, seen the complex reactions of both addict and friends/family. One of the things that actually awes me about the handling in *Sherlock* is how precisely they've shown the patterns without stating the patterns; show, dont' tell. Don't just see--observe. The subtext is so dense, so fluent, and so precise. Just amazing.

Anyway, yes. You don't have to see the drug use if you want to turn away from it, but if you've got any experience you almost can't avoid seeing it. The enactment's just too precise. Every time I rewatch SiB my heart breaks for Mycroft, Sherlock, and John: it's just a horrible situation to deal with, and the emotional cost to all of them is sky high. Looking at Cumberbatch's expression as he performs Sherlock coming back to the flat and *realizing* John and Mrs. Hudson have searched it just rips me to pieces--as does Freeman's performance of John knowing he's betrayed one aspect of his friendship out of necessity. It's horrible to become the safety margin protecting someone you love from himself.

Last edited by TammanyT (December 2, 2013 11:07 am)

 

December 2, 2013 12:42 pm  #58


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Heh. I love Sherlock and Lestrade comparing arm patches. But, yes, it's a diversion... and one that's not going to fly at least in part because Lestrade's not going to mistake having arm patches for being clean. And, yes, I consider the cigarette thing to be Mycroft's attempt at a diagnostic test that doesn't involve exposing Sherlock directly to the illegal drug of choice. One gets the feeling that Sherlock bounces around a lot in his addictions, including cigarettes, so having to go cold turkey in HoB makes perfect sense--though given the time-arc of SiB it's hard to make a direct connection between the two other than to note that he's fallen off the wagon again. SiB, as I read it, runs from one autumn to the next by the time we reach the end. Figuring out where HoB fits in that arc is challenging. (wry grin) One thing I will say that's good about TRF is that at the end there's a clear END, and you don't have to wonder where other episodes fit in relationship to the story. They're either before the fall or after the 18 month exile. Hound could be after SiB, or it could happen during that long arc...though it is most likely to occur after Christmas of the arc, judging by Lestrade's loss of the wedding ring during the interim.and the weather, which is no longer wintery.

It would be lovely if the Beeb and Moffat/Gatiss would give us a rough timeline of the seasons....

 

December 2, 2013 1:00 pm  #59


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

John's blog entry about Hounds:  March 16th.

 

December 2, 2013 1:12 pm  #60


Re: Sherlock and drug use?

Yes, but John's blog doesn't entirely match SiB--I don't always trust it as a time referent. Moffat has commented that SiB takes place over a year...that's less than clear in the blog.

 

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