Perhaps it's presumptuous of me to say, but I think Sherlock would win in any fight with Elementary. 

It does make a very good point however;(I've only watched two episodes of Elementary.)
Elementary could be ANY 'fairly good' cop show; they really haven't conected it with the canon Holmes at all.
One would suggest they are having problems doing that because Moftiss have already covered some fairly familiar points; finding 'different' things to highlight will become increasingly hard for them as the series goes on.

I think what I find almost 'anti - canon' about Elementary is that it is TOO modernised.
It has taken the two main characters, who were basically 'good', one even being 'top of the class' and changed them into flawed characters. So now the 'interest' is more in the characters than the detection, the problem solving, etc. Yes certainly the canon focused on Holmes' brilliance, but it didn't depend on delving into his psyche.
This is a modern trend that sometimes goes too far. Today it seems the 'flawed' individuals are propelled up as the heroes of the world and those who are good at everything, have intelligence & common sense, etc are treated as 'commonplace' & no longer celebrated as they once were.
Now I can hear you all howling in disbelief and champing at the bit to take a piece of me. I am not saying 'having flaws' should be classed as wrong, but it is starting to become 'fashionable' in some ways.But the discussion on that is best left to another thread.

What I am saying is , Elementary has 'reversed' one of the key characteristics of the main characters & that to me makes it an anti-canon interpretation.

Elementary is so boring.  There is no chemistry between Sherlock and Watson. Have they added Mycroft or Moriarty yet?  And the episode where the clincher was that the person was allergic to rice, but had a bag of it at their home...well people aren't allergic to rice.  It is very hypoallergenic. Do your research!

Davina wrote:

If only because Sherlock has John, ex-army doctor as a sidekick and not Joan ex-medic.

I think Joan Watson was a surgeon at one time. She fell from grace because of some kind of medical mistake and lost her license. I think. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Elementary, since it's failed to "grab" me much, but I think I remember that about Joan. I feel for Joan's actress, Lucy Liu-- she's really not given much to do or say in that show, and as a character, she's way underused, not like our John in our Sherlock. Right now I'm 3 episodes behind in my watching, so maybe recently there have been some new developments to change all that-- I hope so. And meanwhile, I fear the shippers-- that eventually they're planning to have Joan fall in bed with Sherlock. Ick. (Why else make her female? more ick....)

kazza474 wrote:

I think what I find almost 'anti - canon' about Elementary is that it is TOO modernised.
It has taken the two main characters, who were basically 'good', one even being 'top of the class' and changed them into flawed characters. So now the 'interest' is more in the characters than the detection, the problem solving, etc. Yes certainly the canon focused on Holmes' brilliance, but it didn't depend on delving into his psyche.
This is a modern trend that sometimes goes too far. Today it seems the 'flawed' individuals are propelled up as the heroes of the world and those who are good at everything, have intelligence & common sense, etc are treated as 'commonplace' & no longer celebrated as they once were....

Bad writing. Cheap, throw-away writing, with only ratings in mind and no love for the characters at all.

Yes Joan is supposed to have been a surgeon who lost her license to practise due to an error on the operating table. What I dislike about this notion is that it immediately makes Joan into something of a failure. True, in the original stories and 'Sherlock' Dr. John Watson is an army veteran who has been injured. In 'Sherlock' he is suffering from PTSS and is somewhat 'lost', he is however not a 'failure' because of this. He is damaged but still extremely competent. Joan's past errors threatens any perception of her as competence as a medic.

Joan's new job is to be with Sherlock Holmes whereas John is unwittingly dragged into becoming Sherlock's Flatmate/colleague/friend/blogger. The writers of Elementary appear to be struggling to make the dynamic between Joan and Sherlock into something more akin to the original. What is totally missing of course is Doctor Watson acting as the narrator/recorder of the cases.

Of course when you have the boy/girl dynamic sex will eventually come into play. But, if done well the interplay can be fun to watch. Moonlighting is a great example of a boy/girl detective show. It had great writing, acting and chemistry between the actors. But, you need a clear definition of what the show is and how you're going to make it work. You can't just slap a name on it people know, cast a couple of folks and expect it to magically be great. A male British detective (doesn't necessarily have to be Sherlock Holmes) with a female American partner can actually have some unique elements in it, but you have to find the quirky not water it down. And, they have to be equals so they balance each other out as characters. It's actually not a bad idea, but it's really poor executed.

Oh please, now we are getting into the 'chinese whispers' type hysteria.
I dislike the concept of the show but that doesn't mean the actual production is as shabby as you people make out. I stand by my comment that it would be on a par with other detective type TV shows of recent times; it's just not cinematic quality as is Sherlock. Much of that could be attributed to the fact that it is a longer running series with less time for production.

As for the 'sex' aspect, I think you've all lost your marbles there. Firstly, the writers have said that they would not be 'going there'. Now yes, we could take that with a grain of salt but in this day & age credibility is fast lost if people go back on their words so soon.
Watson is hardly 'dressed to kill' in that show, in fact she wears quite drab layered garments. There have been no indications of any underlying feelings of love or lust so I would dare to venture that if you percieve any it is more in your mind than on the screen. You guys have 'shown your hand' there, gobbling up stereotypes whether you admit it or not.

I haven't seen a lot of JLM's work but what I have seen has been rather alright. I can certainly see what Angelina saw in him.

Draw a breath people; Elementary is NOT going to affect Sherlock in anyway so let's keep criticisms in balance huh?

kazza474 wrote:

Oh please, now we are getting into the 'chinese whispers' type hysteria.
I dislike the concept of the show but that doesn't mean the actual production is as shabby as you people make out. I stand by my comment that it would be on a par with other detective type TV shows of recent times; it's just not cinematic quality as is Sherlock. Much of that could be attributed to the fact that it is a longer running series with less time for production.

And you've watched it exactly once? Maybe you need to watch a few more episodes.

The pilot (first ep) was a bit different from what they gave us later. None of it's been that well done, but in the first show at least he was allowed to sound like a Brit, and they gave us some quirky things for him to do (like the hooker Watson saw through the window on first arrival, and Sherlock stealing a car and using it to ram someone in the hospital parking lot, and a scene with him up on the rooftop with a city view, contemplating his life while his bees dripped honey through the ceiling into the apartment). Since then, it's mostly been about him hovering in dim corners while the police question people and then him cutting through their short-sightedness to lend them his Sherlockian perceptions (deductions) on the crime/criminals at hand.

As for the 'sex' aspect, I think you've all lost your marbles there. ....There have been no indications of any underlying feelings of love or lust so I would dare to venture that if you perceive any it is more in your mind than on the screen. You guys have 'shown your hand' there, gobbling up stereotypes whether you admit it or not.

In time, we shall see. No one can predict the future (and for all we know, it'll end up cancelled and we'll never see where TPTB intended to take this S/W), but as an American who watches mostly American TV, yes, it would be highly typical for American producers to "go there"-- in fact, they would think it quite clever of them to use a woman-who-is-not-a-typical-bimbo to surprise the audience (and maybe Sherlock himself) with a sexual development between the two of them.

....Draw a breath people; Elementary is NOT going to affect Sherlock in anyway so let's keep criticisms in balance huh?

I thought this was a discussion forum. AFAIK, none of us are personally acquainted with the actors or showrunners or writers of Elementary, so I don't think we're hurting anyone's feelings. And even if we were, this kind of fan discussion is to be expected when someone makes a production for run of the mill public consumption. I will continue to state my viewpoints until I'm told not to, because I think this is the function of this forum.