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March 2, 2012 3:16 pm  #1


Why did Moriarty kill himself?

I know the obvious answer is to force Sherlock into jumping but it still always surprised me that he would go that far...I mean I know he's obviously quite psychologically disturbed, but wasn't his life more fun with Sherlock to play games with?


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June 10, 2012 11:10 pm  #2


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

As I saw it, it was because he realized Sherlock was not a "normal" person any more. He simply had to step up his game even more, and the only way to win over Sherlock at that given time was to bite the bullet.
That's why he says "Thank you" several times just before he shoots himself. Because he came to the understanding that he was actually dealing with a worthy foe this time, even if he had his doubts before, he didn't any more.


I hope you understand that the knowledge I bring
Puts me in a position of a god or a king
//Clawfinger
 

June 11, 2012 2:50 am  #3


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

It was the act of a madman wanting to 'out manoeuvre' his rival. With no thought for consequences.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 11, 2012 5:08 am  #4


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Interesting, though. Moriarty wants Sherlock dead. He thinks Sherlock has realised how to force the recall code out of him and therefore get out of jumping. Is killing himself really the only way he can win?

He is face-to-face with Sherlock. He has Sherlock's dominant right hand trapped in the handshake, leaving his own dominant left hand free to use the gun. Sherlock doesn't notice when he pulls the gun out of his pocket, only when he jerks back to put it in his mouth. Why not instead continue to raise the gun behind Sherlock's line of sight and shoot Sherlock in the right temple? Then use his handkerchief to wipe his fingerprints of Sherlock's right glove and dust gunpowder onto it. Place the gun in/near Sherlock's right hand and Voila! Sherlock has committed suicide. Fairytale complete. Maybe it's not as "sexy" as having Sherlock actually do it himself but the result is the same.

No way Lestrade would be allowed to investigate (too close + probably confined to desk duties after the fiasco of the day before). Possibly Donovan would be in charge of the investigation, possibly a completely independent officer. Either way they will have been prejudiced by the idea that Sherlock had been playing the police for fools and wouldn't care enough for him to investigate closely.

Killing himself defeats Moriarty's own purpose. The obvious thing for Sherlock to do after Moriarty dies would be to call John: "Where are you? Moriarty has just threatened to shoot you and Mrs Hudson, you need to get her somewhere safe now." John was a soldier, having been warned of the danger he would know how to neutralise the gunman at 221B. Likewise, warn Lestrade and report Moriarty's suicide. Wait until everyone is confirmed safe then just walk back down the stairs. In fact, why didn't Sherlock just do that anyway? Something bigger must be going on.

 

June 11, 2012 5:48 am  #5


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Moriarty's only purpose is to beat Sherlock. He achieved that irrationally, as a mad man would.

Moriarty said the snipers were in position. Far too risky to try & get anyone to safety when you don't know who is targeting them & where they are.
Moriarty shoot Sherlock at close range? Apart from the fact he 'doesn't get his hand dirty' by pulling the trigger, he would mess up his Westwood suit.
No, that was never an option for him.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 11, 2012 8:45 am  #6


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

kazza474 wrote:

Moriarty said the snipers were in position. Far too risky to try & get anyone to safety when you don't know who is targeting them & where they are.

John was still in the taxi. All he has to do is tell the driver a new address and he would end up somewhere where the sniper wasn't.  Even if the taxi driver was in on it, all he had to do is jump out the next time the taxi slowed and lose himself in the crowd. He served in Afghanistan - he would have been trained how to avoid being shot by snipers in urban settings. As the sniper set up outside Barts, we can assume Moriarty expected John to be turning up there - most likely in a taxi. Sherlock knows John has gone to find Mrs Hudson and when he finds she is safe he will come back to Barts. Best assumption both of them could make is that he in transit. Until he arrives at Barts John is a wildcard. Army medical staff would be needed for any hostage extraction in a warzone. John would have been trained in rescuing civilians from enemy combatants. If you're going to send someone in to rescue Mrs Hudson, he would be a good choice. I haven't rewatched, but maybe this is the call Sherlock was hoping to make until he saw John was out of the cab. Moriarty, though, had no way of knowing whether he was about to arrive or had been held up in traffic and was still 10 mins away.

Lestrade was in his office (again this would be where both of them must assume he would be). Presumably several members of his team are in the outer office. Unless the gunman is prepared to be caught and tried for murder of a senior police officer, Lestrade would be pretty safe in their company and away from the external windows. I would expect the police have a system in place to deal with threats to the lives of senior officers. With the warning that can be set in motion too.

kazza474 wrote:

Moriarty shoot Sherlock at close range? Apart from the fact he 'doesn't get his hand dirty' by pulling the trigger, he would mess up his Westwood suit.
No, that was never an option for him.

He shot himself at close range... Can't imagine the Westwood suit was too spiffing after lying in a pool of blood - the back of Jim's head wouldn't have been too tidy either. If fastidiousness was his concern, I think he chose the wrong option. 


Why bring a gun with him unless he was planning to shoot himself, to shoot Sherlock or to threaten Sherlock with it? At the very least, why didn't he use it to hold Sherlock off from whatever means he had to find out the recall code until he was certain John was in the sniper's sights? For that matter, why not use it to protect himself until after Sherlock had jumped?

 

June 11, 2012 9:26 am  #7


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

John's gone off to check Mrs Hudson.
Sherlock's at St Bart's.
Moriarty's just killed himself.
Supposedly snipers have the 3 friends in their sights.
All these possible escape plans are meant to run through Sherlock's head & he orchestrates them all?
Why would the police believe anything Sherlock told them?
Why would John listen to him after he's already been 'duped' with the Mrs Hudson shooting?
The man has been vilified in the press, people believe he is evil; no-one is going to put in motion any task force on Sherlock's say so.
It's just not practical for Sherlock to try to achieve anything like that.

Yeah, all those things could work, if everyone knew what was going on & believed it.
They don't.

As for shooting Sherlock, IF that was ever Moriarty's intention (and I don't believe it was, he simply does not kill people himself. Never has.) he would not have wanted his suit messed up.
He is killing himself, he doesn't care what he looks like after that.

The gun is a toy to him really. he never wants to use it. I'm surprised he knew how to pull the trigger.

Bottom line; Moriarty in the canon or the BBC series has a history of never being the one who pulled the trigger. He has puppets for that.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 11, 2012 11:14 am  #8


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

I figure that Moriarty shoots himself dead because otherwise he is potentially outplayed by Sherlock. The only way he can, as far as he is concerned, guarantee Sherlock's fall is by removing himself from the equation. He criticises Sherlock for making things too complicated but this is his undoing as clearly, in some way, Sherlock has  second guessed him. Moriarty is insane so he is prepared to kill himself to be sure of winning the game...weirdly...which to him is the downfall of Sherlock. He realises that Sherlock, rather unexpectedly is actually prepared to do ANYTHING. Moriarty, because he is insane and amazingly conceited too, will assume that Sherlock has not anticipated any of this and will have to really jump off the roof and kill himself. He hasn't looked beyond the end game, as it were, his only solution to the problem is, ultimately to kill himself to force Sherlock's hand. He assumes, we know, wrongly that Sherlock is in the same position. 

Back in 'A Study in Pink' the cabbie says it is all a game of chess. This is the same level of game between Moriarty and Sherlock. Moriarty thinks he is forcing Sherlock to sacrifice his King, i.e. himself but has not worked out all the possible moves that his opponent can make.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

June 11, 2012 11:42 am  #9


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

kazza474 wrote:

John's gone off to check Mrs Hudson.
Sherlock's at St Bart's.
Moriarty's just killed himself.
Supposedly snipers have the 3 friends in their sights.
All these possible escape plans are meant to run through Sherlock's head & he orchestrates them all?
Why would the police believe anything Sherlock told them?
Why would John listen to him after he's already been 'duped' with the Mrs Hudson shooting?
The man has been vilified in the press, people believe he is evil; no-one is going to put in motion any task force on Sherlock's say so.
It's just not practical for Sherlock to try to achieve anything like that.

Sorry, now I'm confused.

All Sherlock has to do is ring John and Lestrade to let them know about the threat to them and Mrs Hudson and let them deal with it. Both men are more than capable of it - more so than Sherlock - it's part of their job descriptions, it's what they have been trained for. Isn't that what anyone would do if someone they cared about was threatened? Give them a chance to protect themselves. Wouldn't Moriarty expect even Sherlock to do that? If they choose to ignore it that's their funeral but if they are really your friends, you at least try.

I've probably just fallen in another plot hole - I'm getting good at that. 

 

June 11, 2012 12:45 pm  #10


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Aurora wrote:

Sorry, now I'm confused.

All Sherlock has to do is ring John and Lestrade to let them know about the threat to them and Mrs Hudson and let them deal with it. Both men are more than capable of it - more so than Sherlock - it's part of their job descriptions, it's what they have been trained for. Isn't that what anyone would do if someone they cared about was threatened? Give them a chance to protect themselves. Wouldn't Moriarty expect even Sherlock to do that? If they choose to ignore it that's their funeral but if they are really your friends, you at least try.

I've probably just fallen in another plot hole - I'm getting good at that. 

Why would Lestrade believe Sherlock? At the moment Sherlock is on the run remember.
Why would John believe Sherlock? He's just sent him on a wild goose chase for Mrs Hudson.

It wouldn't be as easy as it sounds. And time is something Sherlock doesn't have with the threat of assassins. He's set up 'a fall' from the rooftop; it's the quickest way to solve the problem.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 11, 2012 4:01 pm  #11


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

In addition to kazza's comments above, I would add this. I believe Sherlock's super-fast mind is already focused on getting to the snipers and eliminating them. Just because Lestrade, Hudson and Watson escape this time, doesn't mean the snipers won't continue to pursue them. This is Sherlock's opportunity to nab all three of them, "rounding up the whole gang", just like in the canon. Plus, Sherlock probably just can't pass up the opportunity to go through with whatever plan he has in place for surviving the fall. He's playing the game too, just like with the poison pill after the cabbie is already beaten. He just can't resist.


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"Perfectly sound analysis. I was hoping you would go a little deeper."
 

June 11, 2012 4:24 pm  #12


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Sorry if this is off-topic or has already been asked but I always wonder:
How could Sherlock have forced the answers out of Moriarty? Because he doesn't seem the kinda guy to respond to just threats, or did he just think that Sherlock could deduce it?


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I was wondering if you'd like to have coffee...
Hmm. I really don't know. Oh, I'm sorry, did I say 'know'? I meant 'care'. I don't really care. 
Douglas Richardson, Cremona
 

June 30, 2012 3:31 am  #13


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Does everyone really believe that Moriarty is dead? Because I don't, not for a minute. Has Andrew Scott or TPTB, the showrunners, confirmed that Moriarty will not be back in S3? I've always thought he faked his suicide (blanks in the gun, a bag of blood somewhere around his neckline, to be released as he falls). Funny that Sherlock didn't go over to him and feel for a pulse-- I know Sherlock was shocked (who wouldn't be?), but he's so clinical, so aware, so on top of the details of his life and work, why in hell wouldn't he have rushed over and grabbed Moriarty's wrist, just to check?

Sherlock jumped off a building, for cryin' out loud, and none of us believes he's dead. Why do we all believe that Moriarty, the ultimate trickster, is dead? Unless, as I say, the actor and showrunners have confirmed it.

Anyone?

 

June 30, 2012 3:37 am  #14


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Andrew Scott has confirmed that he is moving on.
And Moffat said (something like)' there are plenty more villains, the stories are not about one hero and one villain'.
I'd be disappointed if they used him again, as he dies in the canon after reeking havoc; just as he should in the BBC one.

The question is, did his body get discovered or was there a plan to remove him (dead or alive) from the rooftop?

I've tried scouring over the newpaper reports that came out in a video from John's blog (I think it was) to see if he was mentioned, nothing thus far & surely one of the cleverer fans would have found it by now. I know they have detailed every word on those pages.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 30, 2012 3:38 am  #15


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Molly Hooper wrote:

Sorry if this is off-topic or has already been asked but I always wonder:
How could Sherlock have forced the answers out of Moriarty? Because he doesn't seem the kinda guy to respond to just threats, or did he just think that Sherlock could deduce it?

He is Sherlock.
How could you even question his abilities dear girl!?


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 30, 2012 3:51 am  #16


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

kazza474 wrote:

Andrew Scott has confirmed that he is moving on. And Moffat said (something like)' there are plenty more villains, the stories are not about one hero and one villain'.....

OK, thanks for the info. Color me disappointed. But Andrew left that role on a high note, for sure. And won the BAFTA, too, quite a feather in his acting cap. Poor bored, crazy Moriarty.... maybe they'll find a way to bring him back some day. The show has a curious way of blending what it looks like (action/adventure, mystery drama) with a couple little curve balls of science fiction here and there. So ya never know.

"Honey, you should see me in a crown...."

 

June 30, 2012 4:17 am  #17


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Well, there is possibly a way ...... I don't like to mention it .
If you've read the canon you would know.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

June 30, 2012 8:22 am  #18


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

kazza474 wrote:

Well, there is possibly a way ...... I don't like to mention it .
If you've read the canon you would know.

For some reason, BBC doesn't allow folks outside the UK watch their videos. *exasperated sigh*  So when someone pointed me to the Blog of Dr. John H. Watson tonight, I found I couldn't get any of the vids to open. Went to google and checked around, and found them on you tube, anyway. This one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iqXHoebOjc
a fake news report about how Sherlock had been a fraud, and how he fell or jumped to his death off the rooftop of St. Bart's, curiously doesn't mention that they found Moriarty dead on the same rooftop. They talk about Moriarty and his trial, etc, but not his death, right at the same time as Sherlock's.

Hmmm, I think we'll see ol' Moriarty again.

 

June 30, 2012 9:17 am  #19


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

ancientsgate wrote:

kazza474 wrote:

Well, there is possibly a way ...... I don't like to mention it .
If you've read the canon you would know.

For some reason, BBC doesn't allow folks outside the UK watch their videos. *exasperated sigh*  So when someone pointed me to the Blog of Dr. John H. Watson tonight, I found I couldn't get any of the vids to open. Went to google and checked around, and found them on you tube, anyway. This one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iqXHoebOjc
a fake news report about how Sherlock had been a fraud, and how he fell or jumped to his death off the rooftop of St. Bart's, curiously doesn't mention that they found Moriarty dead on the same rooftop. They talk about Moriarty and his trial, etc, but not his death, right at the same time as Sherlock's.

Hmmm, I think we'll see ol' Moriarty again.

Ah you have not been observing the forum !

http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=34&p=3

All there for you to see.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 6, 2012 3:56 pm  #20


Re: Why did Moriarty kill himself?

Nah, Moriarty's not coming back...he did kind of blow his brains out.

He does have a couple of brothers though.


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Independent OSAJ Affiliate

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