Harriet wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

I no longer watch elementary. That was a waste of time. I've managed to watch ten episodes before I gave up. 

Brave girl, I gave up after three
 

Yeah, I'm pretty proud of myself that I've lasted that long! 

miriel68 wrote:

I am still watching it... out of curiosity to see how they will be elements of ACD canon introduced to it. Transsexual miss  Hudson made me cringe, but the casting choice of Natalie Dormer as Irene Adler is potentially interesting. I am not longer bothered with the comparison with Sherlock, since these are obviously two very different shows. My main problem is the predictability of the plots I have yet to see an episode in which I won't be able to guess who the murderer is the moment he/she appears on screen. And of course Sherlock "redemption" goes in the direction it was obvious from the very beginnig it would go. In the last episode, for example, it was evident that in the end who would go to the meeting his sponsor asked him to go, wouldn't he, even if he declined categorically at first. 

Bad writing. You and I could write a better episode than those whoever-they-are writer hacks at CBS. I still say, the big diff between our Sherlock and CBS' Elementary is the quality of the writing, which is not even comparable.
 

Davina wrote:

What bugged me in the episode I watched ths week (recorded) was that Sherlock said 'dove' instead of 'dived'. Heck I know this is mostly for an American audience but surely they could allow a clearly British character (albeit one who has lived in the states for a while) to say 'dived'. This really jangled!

Yeah. They don't allow him to be  much of a Brit, do they. In the very first pilot episode, he threw in a few Britishisms, but since then, I haven't noticed any. Even his accent is dumbed down for us, and he speaks slowly enough for us to "get it". I confess I didn't get about 10-20% of the Sherlock dialogue until I got the DVDs and put on the English subtitles.

A lot of American-made TV is dumbed down for American audiences. I think they think that most of us who watch anything on the regular commerical networks never graduated from 8th grade and aren't over about 18. *rolls eyes* As if all the adults are over watching HBO or PBS or something, and only the kids and uneducated are tuning in to CBS. Sigh.

 

True enough physically.  I should have indicated I meant psychologically fragile.  He had been utterly fooled by Moriarty, he descended into the depths of addiction, apparently trashed his reputation with the authorities and public in England, and is constantly aware of his vulnerability as a sober drug addict.  That's where Watson's experience as a sober companion is really valueable to him.  He (probably) never was good at relating to people, and he is now aware that this is a weakness, and Joan is counseling him even at this point in the series.

...and still, I would have prefered German TV to NOT stop showing Elementary two episodes before the end of Series One!

No, they just stopped. I mean, they could have at least showed two more episodes to finish series 1. It's especially stupid because they must have already dubbed them, but no, just no more Elementary on that chanel. They did the same thing with Blue Bloods, twice! Stopped in the midle of series1, started showing it again after more than a year, just to stop again four episodes later than last time.

Instead, they are showing the nth re-run of Castle or some show that pretends to be a documentary soap opera but is really faked with lousy actors.

I haven't read through all the other comments on this thread, just the first few.

A) I'm American
B) I went through rehab
C) I absolutely love the BBC Sherlock series.

To me, the female Watson feels like some politically correct formula piece to have a strong woman in a role.  Same with Moriarity.  It just doesn't fit for this. 

The periodic playing around with the idea of possible attraction between the two characters (Elementary Sherlock and Joan) REALLY FELT LIKE FORMULA.  A formula I would like to see eradicated.  But, I see that formula in spades with BBC series (generally Sherlock does not do this, except for the insinuations that John Watson is gay, and they really need to lose that bit.  Once is enough.)  The female Moriarity feels just as bad.

The first few episodes of Elementary really clunked as far as clues, etc.  I don't know if they've gotten better, or I've just been lulled into ennui.  I do watch Elementary, but that is all.  I don't miss it when it is not there.  "Sherlock", I savor, and rewatch, and rewatch, and rewatch.  I couldn't see rewatching an Elementary episode.

The REHAP CRAP drives me up the wall, and is SO CLICHE, it is ridiculous, and makes me embarrassed for the US.  I went to 12 step for a while.  It is a cult, though a benign cult. It just drives me bonkers to see this crap thrown out on TV.   20 years ago, it might have been topical.  TODAY?  No, just a clunky formula piece.

"Sherlock" has its gaffs too.  But it is throughly engaging.  I didn't like episode 3.1 at first.  I thought they made Sherlock too flippant and annoying in a vacuous way, not in an unknowlingly annoying way.  It still feels out of character after rewatching, but, the followup episodes help lull the rancor over that.

Thankfully, the US version of Torchwood bit the dust.  That was even more embarrassing.  Elementary?  I can take it or leave it.  "Sherlock", gotta have it.  I think the US formula machines need to be broken.  However, BBC did put out "Copper" and "Ripper Street", both series with great potential, and both driven into the dust by suffocating soap opera formulas.  I quit watching Downton Abbey for the same reason.

But, Sherlock gets it.

That looks just like a random's person personal opinion, maybe they were comparing the episodes with each other within a show, not to other shows. How could you do that anyway. 

Elementary doesn't have better female characters, it just has female characters forcibly slammed into more prominent places in the story line.  Neither Watson nor Moriarty work as female leads.

Call me insensitive, but not sure where the racism is raising it's ugly head in Sherlock.  Is it because of Donovan being a bad person?

 

I think Elementary is an ok show, is not bad but is there are better shows out there. I recently spent some days visiting a friend who really likes the show and I saw several episodes, I didn't hate it, but I won't keep watching it either.

The main reason the show doesn't interest me is that most of the time I didn't feel like I was watching a Sherlock Holmes adaptation, I read the books some time ago (and I will read them again as soon as I can) but I still remember a few things and when I watch Elementary I feel like I'm watching a bunch of characters that have almost nothing in common with their book counterparts, specially Watson.

And now I'll do the unfair thing and I will compare it to Sherlock because I want to talk about Elementary treating its female characters better (warning, spoilers ahead):

It doesn't.

First of all, I personally don't think that making Watson a woman means Elementary is a feminist show and Sherlock isn't. Yes, Watson is a woman, but she is also a woman who decided to quit her career as a surgeon because she made a mistake, yes it was a terrible mistake and I would never be able to understand how a doctor must feel when a patient dies because of them, but the fact is she allowed that mistake to rule her life, to the point where she decided to abadon a career that requires years and years of hard work because she couldn't deal with the fact that she made a mistake. Not only that, but she also went after a job that didn't make her happy, not because she wanted to help recovering addicts, no, it was because one of her ex-boyfriends became an addict while they were together and she thought her experience meant she was prepared to become a companion. If you think about it, that means she chose her job because she was romantically involved with an addict. There is also the fact that, as @swanpride has said, she doesn't have any other job apart from helping Sherlock, wich means she depends on a man who at the same time is living thanks to his father's money. And if I remember correctly, in some of the later episodes my friend showed me she starts using Sherlock methods to become a detective, to me that means the show thinks super strong female character Joan Watson needs to be like Sherlock to be useful. 

I also saw the episodes with Moriarty and I honestly I don't know how to feel about Irene Adler being Moriarty, one part of me thinks is a clever twist, another part of me can't help thinking that the reason they did this was because in their minds the only way Irene can be Sherlock's equal is if she becomes his most famous enemy. Either way, I enjoyed the character.

And here concludes my brief analysis of Elementary's female characters, because these two are the only female characters that appear in more than one episode (and Irene appears in only a few episodes, she is not really a series regular, according to imdb). Considering they have more than 20 episodes per season, one would think they have enough time to include more female characters, but apparently that's not the case.

Now we have Sherlock, a show that only has 3 episodes per season, and yet they have more female characters than Elementary, they may not be protagonists, but they are important characters none the less:

Miss Hudson, who seems to be so fragile and delicate and yet managed to survive a marriage to a criminal and made sure she got rid of him, and is also smart enough to trick a bunch of american agents and hides what they are looking for with them present.

Molly, clumsy and awkard and completely in love with Sherlock, and yet she can also see his flaws and is able to realize her feelings are completely one-sided and moves on with her life. Oh and she is also smart and perceptive even if most people can't see it.

And then we have Mary, who is really intelligent and warm but can also be ruthless when she feels her life with Jonh is in danger, she is probably the most dangerous character the show has and, even though she has done terrible things, the writers manage to make you care about her.

And none if this characters are defined by the men in their lifes, yes Sherlock and John are important to them but I never felt like they defined them, that makes them strong female characters, not the status of main character.

And again, I don't hate Elementary, but it bothers me when people say it's a more feminist show (or a better one) just because it has a female Watson. 

Last edited by Molly (January 22, 2014 8:35 pm)